Fix paladin. Only Class in the entire game that cannot...

[Shurrikhan]

This is starting to sound like the stack-parry argument. Thinking that Clemency is keeping your healer in Cleric is a hypothetical. your healers DPS output depends 99% on that player, 0.9% on the weather, and 0.1% on you. Healing I've got a set opening DPS rotation and stance dance that either used or not. You Clemency mid-fight is hardly going to factor, more-so now than 2.x with Tetegration and Essential Dig. At worst you are going to have me waste it and at best I'll toss an Aspected Benefit / Regen refresh / Adlo that I otherwise would have not.

If you were:
1. ONLY doing AoE
2. Your healer had significantly better AoE than you
3. Your stacking parry saved more healer dps than it cost you

Then yes, stacking parry would be good. But, we don't only AoE, and at 3 mobs or less we do fine off GB rotations, and parry just does not scale well enough to have those effects.

I'd personally call it practical rather than hypothetical because it occurs for me, consistently if not identically, in the vast majority of my Expert roulette runs, from both PLD and AST/WHM perspectives. AS a PLD, if I would have needed a buffed Aspected Benefic shield, a swap to Aspected Benefic regen, ED, and then three Benefic IIs and another Aspected Benefic regen over the course of the fight, I can forgo two or all of the Benefic IIs with two Clemency casts, allowing for two additional Gravity casts. This happens identically, given similar healer ilvls and my using the same CDs in the same pull, across multiple healers. The only time I see truly different results are with a SCH, in which case we may choose not to pure AoE, and I tend to use Clemency only as he needs to reset DoTs for Bane. Otherwise, since much of the SCH's dps is already tied up in his pet (essentially regen but without the front-loading), I'll often get better results GBing key targets and reducing damage taken over the course of the pull through successive kills. TP and MP are obviously additional factors. I'm not saying Clemency heals = Healer dps stands as a rule of thumb, but it is my primary finding across hundreds of runs if one plays to the finer factors involved.

[SyzzleSpark]

Did we all somehow magically forget in an AoE tanking scenario Clemency is extremely likely to get interrupted after maybe 1 or 2 casts allowed by Holy stuns, during which, because of the stun, you're not taking enough damage to warrant Clemency anyway? o.O

[Brannigan]

Regular monsters will never interrupt a paladin unless you get hit by a telegraphed special attack. Even then, maybe not.

[SyzzleSpark]

Regular monsters will never interrupt a paladin unless you get hit by a telegraphed special attack. Even then, maybe not.

Maybe if you only pull a single pack. Pull even two packs and the combined damage will interrupt you. And if we're talking about letting your healer have sick AoE deeps you'd want more than 1 pack... and also, I reiterate, I dunno why/how you'd be taking enough damage from 3 mobs to warrant the casting of a 1200 potency heal.

You'd be better off popping one of those cooldown things, allowing both the healer AND yourself to DPS.

[Launched]

Maybe if you only pull a single pack. Pull even two packs and the combined damage will interrupt you. And if we're talking about letting your healer have sick AoE deeps you'd want more than 1 pack... and also, I reiterate, I dunno why/how you'd be taking enough damage from 3 mobs to warrant the casting of a 1200 potency heal.

You'd be better off popping one of those cooldown things, allowing both the healer AND yourself to DPS.

You don't get interrupted by cumulative damage. It's based on a percentage of your max hp, a single hit is either above that amount or below, and most trash mobs are below.

[Brannigan]

Maybe if you only pull a single pack. Pull even two packs and the combined damage will interrupt you.

No it won't. I pull everything the game lets you in Sohr Kai and don't get interrupted.

[SyzzleSpark]

I see. Well I guess if this illustrates anything its that I've never stopped to cast something in the middle of a max-sized pull, because I'm generally hitting cooldowns and killing things. Which I still submit as the more effective use of anyone's time. Overhealing damage that would otherwise be negligible had you popped CDs, AND not DPSing (because you're casting), seems... well. Lets say inefficient.

The argument I've seen a few times in this thread that implies your healer can't DPS unless you cast Clemency is pretty ludicrous. You can both DPS, and healers will Holy/Gravity/Broil-Bane every bit as much with a good DRK or WAR. Only things will die faster in the latter two cases because those tanks use cooldowns and not casts.

[Brannigan]

You know you can hit your cooldowns and do some damage before you start casting, right? It's not like using Clemency removes Rampart. Buying the healer an extra GCD in cleric stance can be helpful sometimes. Then again, it's all dungeons so it doesn't really matter.

Only things will die faster in the latter two cases because those tanks use cooldowns and not casts.

What

Perhaps you meant "those tanks are attacking and not casting?"

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

Sorry, I guess I thought that with the word "cooldowns" there was the implication in this context that they can be weaved in between damaging GCDs where Clemency cannot. And if you had cooldowns like Rampart up, a good healer putting up a regen/shield and stuns/slows, I didn't see whence the big damage would be coming that would require a heal the size of Clemency; ergo, both PLD+healer could be DPSing.

[SpookyGhost]

Sorry, I guess I thought that with the word "cooldowns" there was the implication in this context that they can be weaved in between damaging GCDs where Clemency cannot. And if you had cooldowns like Rampart up, a good healer putting up a regen/shield and stuns/slows, I didn't see whence the big damage would be coming that would require a heal the size of Clemency; ergo, both PLD+healer could be DPSing.

If that Clemency gives your healer even a single extra AOE GCD then you're looking at a gDPS gain that PLD could never achieve in place of that AOE GCD since... it has no AOE (outside of CoS (which is oGCD)).

e: Also Clemency = 1+ AOE GCD(s) doesn't necessarily work in DF but if you can actually coordinate with your healer you can pull it off. Then again if I was using PLD in DF I'd probably Clemency anyway lol