Fix paladin. Only Class in the entire game that cannot...

[Archaell]

The reason why PLD's Flash does no damage is because it costs MP, rather than TP.

Making Flash do damage is a bit like making BLM's Flare cost TP instead of MP. You might as well make it cost 0 MP at that point, as it's effectively free dps with no meaningful resource cost. I know that Flash and Unleash seem to be similar superficially, but MP management is absolutely critical when playing DRK, and is absolutely trivial when playing PLD.

Pld might not need so much mana, but clemency and stances do cost mana - as I don't ignore the skill I had the chance to enjoy being unable to change the stance on few occasions and it's lovely feeling. Being able to spam flash for "free" dps would actually make the mana management less trivial than it is right now.

[Kitfox]

The reason why PLD's Flash does no damage is because it costs MP, rather than TP.

Making Flash do damage is a bit like making BLM's Flare cost TP instead of MP. You might as well make it cost 0 MP at that point, as it's effectively free dps with no meaningful resource cost. I know that Flash and Unleash seem to be similar superficially, but MP management is absolutely critical when playing DRK, and is absolutely trivial when playing PLD.

Whatever the reason is, it's not good enough to warrant PLD doing such utterly bad AoE dps compared to other tanks. It's not like you'll die instantly if you run out of mana for a GCD or two on DRK. Think of this way, losing your Darkside for a few seconds (usually you don't unless you're bad) is still much less of a loss than any and every Flash a PLD is forced to use (can't avoid them, even if you're not bad).

Hell, PLD could use the "free dps" since they bottom out on TP way faster than DRK anyway, and DRK has plenty of "free dps" from their mp even with better TP management.

[Dzian]

I would like to use Raise (conjurer cross skill) during battle, too.
In fact, PLD got too many cross skills, which arent very usefull.

This. being able to raise in battle would be so damn great.

As for paladins problems. I think a lot of them stem from the fact that it is a highly defensive focussed class is a very offensive orientated game..
and in 99% of content the defensive toolkit a paladin has is worthless. divine viel wont save you from a failed dps check for example. and if you pass the dps check you take take no damage at all so divine viel doesn't make a difference.

[Synestra]

Just checked some 1.20 GLD/PLD skills and i must say most of them were way more interesing what we have now, both Rampart and Sentinel had enmity bonuses while they were active(sentinel had also way shorter CD back then)not to mention skills like Outmaneuver: Increases block rate and grants TP for each block made while effect is active. Recast Time: 90sec. / Duration: 30sec. that would have solved all TP problems this job had instead nerfing cost on weapon skills.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post476429

[Brannigan]

Rampart just generated a flat amount of enmity for every person it affected (it was AOE). Sentinel had an enmity generation bonus and it was like 90s cooldown. 1.23 Rampart would be closer to AOE foresight + magic foresight. Outmaneuver was kinda okay but TP generation was way different and Outmaneuver didn't really increase your block rate enough to be effective on its own. Had to pair it with the revamped Divine Veil.

Anyway I think it's a pretty common sentiment that 1.23 paladin to 2.0 paladin was a big downgrade as far as cool skills goes. We've gotten a lot of stuff back in some form since 3.0, but some stuff is still half dead. I think 1.23 spirits within was way cooler than the one we have, for example. The two are very similar, but 1.23 SW required a combo that started with a block reaction attack (Phalanx), had a 1 minute cooldown and SUPER hard. It was a really big part of your damage and enmity so you kinda wanted to hit it with high HP.

[Lyth]

Pld might not need so much mana, but clemency and stances do cost mana

The real cost to clemency is cast time. The real cost of stance swapping is the GCD activation. These translate into a dps losses. You pay for the ability to use these skills with dps.

Whatever the reason is, it's not good enough to warrant PLD doing such utterly bad AoE dps compared to other tanks. It's not like you'll die instantly if you run out of mana for a GCD or two on DRK. Think of this way, losing your Darkside for a few seconds (usually you don't unless you're bad) is still much less of a loss than any and every Flash a PLD is forced to use (can't avoid them, even if you're not bad).

Hell, PLD could use the "free dps" since they bottom out on TP way faster than DRK anyway, and DRK has plenty of "free dps" from their mp even with better TP management.

PLD does need to have its AoE toolkit expanded. TP is a resource that actually matters to PLD. Having a GCD AoE dps move tied to a TP cost (like it does on WAR) is one possibility. Giving PLD a new resource to manage, either through block procs or some other mechanic, is another. But tying a dps move on PLD to MP alone makes little sense, unless you want to turn it into a simplified version of DRK.

Also, losing Darkside when there are active mobs, even for a few seconds, is just like losing uptime on Maim or Heavy Thrust. It's a serious enough error that you should prioritise fixing that first before trying to troubleshoot any other weaknesses in your rotation. Even aside from dps, it locks you out of a significant portion of your toolkit, mitigation moves included.

divine viel wont save you from a failed dps check for example. and if you pass the dps check you take take no damage at all so divine viel doesn't make a difference.

DV is one of the most powerful raid mitigation abilities in the game. It's also one of the factors that you consider when deciding to use PLD in a raid comp. Mitigation advantages can always be converted into dps gains.

[Kitfox]

TP is a resource that actually matters to PLD. Having a GCD AoE dps move tied to a TP cost (like it does on WAR) is one possibility.

You can't give PLD a TP based AoE without changing multiple things about the class. PLDs have the worst TP management of all tanks, giving them a 100+ TP costing AoE is going to absolutely murder them. WAR gets away with TP cost because they have Equilibrium, Steel Cyclone/Decimate, Inner Beast/Fell Cleave, and Berserk pacification. Every single one of those gives WAR more TP to play around with. PLD has none of those tools so giving them another TP sink would kill their TP with no ways to get it back.

Also, losing Darkside when there are active mobs, even for a few seconds, is just like losing uptime on Maim or Heavy Thrust. It's a serious enough error that you should prioritise fixing that first before trying to troubleshoot any other weaknesses in your rotation. Even aside from dps, it locks you out of a significant portion of your toolkit, mitigation moves included.

Also, using Flash when there are active mobs, even for a few seconds, is just like losing uptime on Maim or Heavy Thrust, but an even worse dps loss. It's a serious enough error that you should prioritise fixing that first before trying to troubleshoot any other weaknesses in your rotation. Even aside from dps, it locks you out of a significant portion of your toolkit when you bottom out on MP, mitigation moves included, like Clemency, Shield/Sword Oath and Flash.

[Freyyy]

PLD has none of those tools so giving them another TP sink would kill their TP with no ways to get it back.

But nothing prevents them from giving PLD both a TP-costing AoE AND a mean to restore its TP.

[Lyth]

PLD does need adjustments to its TP management, and I would love to see the job get a TP management skill, especially for longer fights. But at the moment, TP is the only meaningful resource on PLD. It doesn't matter if you're managing TP, MP, or stacks, as long as your dps moves are actually tied to a resource that you're forced to manage. If that isn't the case, you remove meaningful decision making from the job.

Also, if you're using:
1) Flash spam (i.e. spamming a 0 dps enmity move)
2) in Sword Oath (i.e. reducing your enmity generation on the abovementioned 0 dps enmity move while you spam it) and
3) get locked out of Shield Oath as a result (i.e. not planning your stance swaps on a scripted encounter)

then I suspect that no amount of job redesign will be of assistance, unfortunately.

[Kitfox]

Fine, whatever, if you refuse to see the parallels, there's no point arguing.

I still think TP based solutions are way harder to implement. They would also make MP even more of a throw-away resource. As long as they gave Flash a potency, that's less than Goring Blade rotation potency, it would play out exactly as it does now with the same decision making. You use Flash only when you absolutely have to and immediately switch to Goring Blade afterwards. As long as Flash does less than 1020/3=340 potency per GCD, you're still going to switch to Goring Blade as soon as you don't need to Flash for enmity. That means you could give Flash a potency of 100, and against 3 enemies it would have zero effect on current gameplay style. If that's too powerful, you could balance it against 5 mobs and give it a meager potency of 60. A simple change like that would make Flash a meaningful ability, and give PLD some tools to catch up to DRK and WAR when against 3+ or 5+ mobs.

Sure, stack systems and TP changes and so on would be nice, but by far the most simple way to fix PLD AoE is to just fix this one ability.