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  1. #1
    Player
    Kitfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Lynn Nuvestrahl
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    See, that is actually not what Flash is meant to traditionally do anyway - it usually just debuffs the enemy with a blindness effect, which it does here, with the added function here of also being something of an AoE-spell-version of FFXI's Provoke by boosting hate. I think it's perfectly fine as it is - adding damage to it would just unbalance the ability completely. .
    I know what Flash is supposed to do traditionally, but it's not fine as it is. Flash fills the same spot in the tank tool kit as Overpower and Unleash do, both of those inflict damage and make it so PLD AoE DPS is significantly behind the other tanks. That is an imbalance. Flash needs a damage component, or it needs to be replaced with another ability that has one. Enmity is not the problem, damage is (and nobody cares about the blind).


    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    snip
    ATB systems were used through FF4-9, then again in 10-2, 13 and 13-2. FF10 used a turn-based system with no ATB (think they called it 'CTB' Count Time Battle). None of these ATB system are strictly turn-based, in the sense that they do have a real time component when toggled to "active" instead of "wait."

    The major difference between the 4-9 era and all the things that came after that, is that in the early days of ATB, enemy and player turns couldn't happen at the same time. However, after X-2, 13 and so on, this changed and it was in fact possible for different turns to happen simultaneously. All the actors in battle had their own ATB gauges. These systems are very similar to FF14 but they've added a movement component as well. If all those elements make FF14 a 'real time battle' to you, then that's fine, it's really a semantic question. I think it's more of a hybrid system, like all the other ATB systems, where they combine real-time elements with turn-based elements.

    Now, when I said ATB is GCD, I meant more specifically the ATB gauge mechanic. Whether you wait until '100' or wait '2.50' is completely irrelevant, mechanically it's a timer that you wait for to use your turn. Maybe GCD has connotations that I'm not aware of, but in the context of FF14 you could use both interchangeably. I actually find it weird they used the term GCD from the start, instead of ATB, considering the history they have with ATB systems.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kitfox; 08-24-2016 at 06:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    PLD would benefit from a GCD AoE move in its kit. The problem is that MP is a throwaway resource on a PLD. As a result, skills which use MP cost you dps to use, either by not doing damage (i.e. Flash) or because they have cast times (i.e Clemency).

    A way around this would be to give PLD an AoE spell with a cast time (i.e. Banish III) and let blocks have a chance to give you a swiftcast proc that you can spend on a spell of your choice. You'd then make decisions about whether to spend these procs on dps, or on your utility/healing moves (i.e. Clemency).

    The other alternative would be something like Circle Blade, which could cost TP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitfox View Post
    Now, when I said ATB is GCD
    I don't want to get embroiled in this derailing discussion, but ATB (Active Time Battle) refers to a battle system. The individual "turns" in an ATB system are not referred to as Active Time Battles. It is incorrect to say "It is now time for me to perform an action, my Active Time Battle has come up!" Irrespective of whether you feel that FFXIV is using a spiritual variant of the ATB system, using the acronyms ATB and GCD interchangeably makes little sense.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Caitlyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Eden
    Posts
    5,440
    Character
    Geistherz Gungnir
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    I would like to use Raise (conjurer cross skill) during battle, too.
    In fact, PLD got too many cross skills, which arent very usefull.
    (3)
    - Queen of Heal 2022 -
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulecrain View Post
    Damit du als Queen of heal natürlich deine königlichen Wünsche erfüllt bekommst. ♥
    Quote Originally Posted by Dicentis View Post
    Ich finde es eh schon krank, dass du Paules Zitat ungefragt verwendest und ich weiß, dass du nie eine Erlaubnis dafür bekommen hast!

  4. #4
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlyn View Post
    I would like to use Raise (conjurer cross skill) during battle, too.
    In fact, PLD got too many cross skills, which arent very usefull.
    This. being able to raise in battle would be so damn great.

    As for paladins problems. I think a lot of them stem from the fact that it is a highly defensive focussed class is a very offensive orientated game..
    and in 99% of content the defensive toolkit a paladin has is worthless. divine viel wont save you from a failed dps check for example. and if you pass the dps check you take take no damage at all so divine viel doesn't make a difference.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Kitfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Lynn Nuvestrahl
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    A way around this would be to give PLD an AoE spell with a cast time (i.e. Banish III) and let blocks have a chance to give you a swiftcast proc that you can spend on a spell of your choice. You'd then make decisions about whether to spend these procs on dps, or on your utility/healing moves (i.e. Clemency).
    This is actually one of the better ideas I've heard. They would really have to change how block works during spell casting for this, though. It's bizarre that you can not block while casting spells, especially since in the beginning mages had one-handed weapons and shields as an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    It is incorrect to say "It is now time for me to perform an action, my Active Time Battle has come up!"
    It's not wrong to say your ATB gauge has come up, which is what I implied, quite specifically. In normal speech the 'gauge' drops and people usually refer to the wait time as ATB, at least that's how I've always referred to it. Even the games itself refer to the gauge with the term ATB, as there is equipment and Crystarium levels with a stat ATB level, ATB+1, ATB capacity and so on. ATB can refer to the whole system, or to the ATB gauge, I thought I made that very clear in my comment. If you refer to the gauge, then ATB and GCD are very much the same thing. I do agree Global Cooldown is a more descriptive name, but this is all just semantics really.
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