Fix paladin. Only Class in the entire game that cannot...

[Kabooa]

So what you're really looking at is effectively a turn based battle system, with two different types of turns where actions can happen.

This would be true if the only actions taken in Final Fantasy 14 were ability / action choices, but they are not. Movement, environment interaction, auto-attacks, and other often encounter-unique variables exist, all of which have nothing to do with the GCD timer.

FF14 isn't running a variation of the ATB or Turn Based systems. They are running what most MMOs use as the standard now, and that's a Real Time GCD based combat system.

[Kitfox]

This would be true if the only actions taken in Final Fantasy 14 were ability / action choices, but they are not. Movement, environment interaction, auto-attacks, and other often encounter-unique variables exist, all of which have nothing to do with the GCD timer.

FF14 isn't running a variation of the ATB or Turn Based systems. They are running what most MMOs use as the standard now, and that's a Real Time GCD based combat system.

Movement is the only 'real time' part of combat. All mobs and bosses have their own unique turn length for their mechanical abilities and auto-attacks run on their own timer which is effectively just another ATB gauge, that you don't actually even pay any attention to.

If you took the movement away, you could easily drop the whole FF14 ability system into FF1-9+13, and the only thing different from those other FF games would be that you have an extra turn between the other turns for certain abilities.

[HyperiusUltima]

Movement is the only 'real time' part of combat. All mobs and bosses have their own unique turn length for their mechanical abilities and auto-attacks run on their own timer which is effectively just another ATB gauge, that you don't actually even pay any attention to.

If you took the movement away, you could easily drop the whole FF14 ability system into FF1-9+13, and the only thing different from those other FF games would be that you have an extra turn between the other turns for certain abilities.

Guys drop the ATB term when it comes to MMOs like this. This term does not apply to FFXIV whatsoever as it is in fact similar to WoW(where you have abilities that are on a Cooldown, rather than waiting your turn to use it again like FF1-10/12/13). To be honest though, PLD was lackluster in its creation in the first place.

[Kitfox]

Guys drop the ATB term when it comes to MMOs like this. This term does not apply to FFXIV whatsoever as it is in fact similar to WoW(where you have abilities that are on a Cooldown, rather than waiting your turn to use it again like FF1-10/12/13). To be honest though, PLD was lackluster in its creation in the first place.

I just find it an interesting argument to claim that ATB and GCD are somehow inherently different, when they're mechanically exactly the same. I don't really care about the terms either way. :P

And yeah, Flash needs to do damage, or be a different ability that does. This isn't the first thread about it.

[ADVSS]

What was the topic of the thread again?

[Enkidoh]

And yeah, Flash needs to do damage, or be a different ability that does. This isn't the first thread about it.

See, that is actually not what Flash is meant to traditionally do anyway - it usually just debuffs the enemy with a blindness effect, which it does here, with the added function here of also being something of an AoE-spell-version of FFXI's Provoke by boosting hate. I think it's perfectly fine as it is - adding damage to it would just unbalance the ability completely.

War Drum on the other hand, I suspect SE are keeping carefully in reserve for later implementation with future level cap increases, as we have already seen this with Goring Blade (which was originally an old 1.0 GLA weaponskill that disappeared when 1.0's classes were redesigned), so a second AoE damage ability/weaponskill in the future like War Drum is entirely possible. But I guess we will see more or less.

[Kabooa]

I just find it an interesting argument to claim that ATB and GCD are somehow inherently different, when they're mechanically exactly the same.

I don't think you understand what exactly means.

The only possible argument that might link the two to be similar is by greatly stretching what the definition of a Turn Based system is. The ATB is a turn based system, plain and simple, that has the -option- (Which itself can be enforced, removed, or left to the player's discretion varying on the game) of allowing turns to be overridden so long as the same priority level (Someone is 'ready' to act) exists. This means Cecil the Paladin might have hit '100' first and has the initiative, but if Golbez hits '100' as well while Cecil decides what his action will be, Golbez is allowed to act.

And again, the ATB system varies the player control over it by title. FFX uses it strictly in a turn based setting, while FF6 I believe allowed you to toggle from standard to turn based.

This contradicts heavily with Real Time systems. The ATB grants the illusion of real time, but it is not. FF14 is running a real time system.

Edit

But let's contribute to the topic for once >_>

Paladins need some minor adjustments (Shield Oath at 30 being the primary one) but otherwise are functioning well.

[ADVSS]

Active Time Battle was introduced in ff4, where the enemies didnt wait for you to input commands and "take your turn" before the turn-based part of the combat initiated, its not much different that how enemies will keep auto attacking here, the terminology might be off, but you guys knew what the poster meant,unless youre purposely derailing this cause you believe "PLD is perfect", I think that cos switching places with flash is not a good idea, at that part all tanks need a spammable aoe enmity generator. As far as an aoe damage ability, i think its very likely pld will get one in the next expansion. After all, they got catch up abilities this expansion, I think its safe to say that while pld is good phys mitigation tank, its also the one that seems to have failed a grade and is catching up with the rest of its classmates a year behind, literally. Unless they rework the job skills, I believe itll just keep being slightly behind the other two, i guess it just has way too many cooldowns from 1 to 50. .

[Rawrz]

I've said this before, but:

I wanna see Clemency doing more for Paladins. I want it to pull aggro like a cute shirt on a small dog at a PETA convention. I think while Main tanking in Sword Oath, it should be instant cast, but be a buffed Regen. Healing Potency at 600 instant + 1200 over the course of 18 seconds instead of just 1200 up front, while still sharing 50% of whatever was healed with the target. Its Enmity, unlike normal heals, which are halved, should be doubled. He should be able to Pop it on himself or a party member under duress and the mobs should RUN to him. WHO IS HE TO HEAL THESE PARTY MEMBERS~ That mob in my scenario. Imagine, WHMs free to precast Regen on the tank, because his own regen out aggros it 4 times over and instantly being in DPS mode.

While in Sword Oath, Clemency would not heal yourself, but instead have a hefty reduced MP cost while still healing 1200 potency, something like 50-60% less than what it costs now.

I do agree that flash could use some love similar to Miasma II, but with much higher initial potency.

Clemency

Can only be used under the effect of Sword Oath or Shield Oath

While under the effect of Shield Oath:
Restores target's HP Cure Potency : 600
Also grants healing over time effect while generating high enmity to surrounding targets. Cure Potency of 200 to target for 18s.

Additional Effect: Restores to self 50% of HP restored to target if target is a party member.
Cast time: Instant
MP cost: 2121 MP.

While under the effect of Sword Oath:
Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 1200.

Cast Time: 2 seconds.
MP cost: 1060

While under the effect of Tempered Will, Clemency cannot be interrupted, except by attacks that are not affected by Tempered Will. Damage cannot cancel the cast of Clemency, so long as the effect is active.

This is something I'd like to see, ALONG with something to help with the AOE DPS (like a DoT on flash.)

[Awful]

Paladin was great in 2.0 it was the MT of MTs but since Gordias launch people were very skeptical of how Pld was going to preform they had a lot of supportive abilities but they had issues and still do before Divine Veil couldn't be triggered by the pld but now it can so kudos for that. They fixed their dmg but it took them AFTER the next raid tier came out which they could have tested it instead of having players having to reroll into a War or a Drk where the meta was hard DPS checks and pld couldn't meet those due to DPS/Threat. That is really not okay to the people (like myself) who mained Pld back in 2.0 I rerolled soon as I hit Ishgard but I tell you, I am not happy with the state of Pld and I don't think I ever will.