Fix paladin. Only Class in the entire game that cannot...

[Kitfox]

This would be true if the only actions taken in Final Fantasy 14 were ability / action choices, but they are not. Movement, environment interaction, auto-attacks, and other often encounter-unique variables exist, all of which have nothing to do with the GCD timer.

FF14 isn't running a variation of the ATB or Turn Based systems. They are running what most MMOs use as the standard now, and that's a Real Time GCD based combat system.

Movement is the only 'real time' part of combat. All mobs and bosses have their own unique turn length for their mechanical abilities and auto-attacks run on their own timer which is effectively just another ATB gauge, that you don't actually even pay any attention to.

If you took the movement away, you could easily drop the whole FF14 ability system into FF1-9+13, and the only thing different from those other FF games would be that you have an extra turn between the other turns for certain abilities.

[HyperiusUltima]

Movement is the only 'real time' part of combat. All mobs and bosses have their own unique turn length for their mechanical abilities and auto-attacks run on their own timer which is effectively just another ATB gauge, that you don't actually even pay any attention to.

If you took the movement away, you could easily drop the whole FF14 ability system into FF1-9+13, and the only thing different from those other FF games would be that you have an extra turn between the other turns for certain abilities.

Guys drop the ATB term when it comes to MMOs like this. This term does not apply to FFXIV whatsoever as it is in fact similar to WoW(where you have abilities that are on a Cooldown, rather than waiting your turn to use it again like FF1-10/12/13). To be honest though, PLD was lackluster in its creation in the first place.

[Kitfox]

Guys drop the ATB term when it comes to MMOs like this. This term does not apply to FFXIV whatsoever as it is in fact similar to WoW(where you have abilities that are on a Cooldown, rather than waiting your turn to use it again like FF1-10/12/13). To be honest though, PLD was lackluster in its creation in the first place.

I just find it an interesting argument to claim that ATB and GCD are somehow inherently different, when they're mechanically exactly the same. I don't really care about the terms either way. :P

And yeah, Flash needs to do damage, or be a different ability that does. This isn't the first thread about it.

[Enkidoh]

And yeah, Flash needs to do damage, or be a different ability that does. This isn't the first thread about it.

See, that is actually not what Flash is meant to traditionally do anyway - it usually just debuffs the enemy with a blindness effect, which it does here, with the added function here of also being something of an AoE-spell-version of FFXI's Provoke by boosting hate. I think it's perfectly fine as it is - adding damage to it would just unbalance the ability completely.

War Drum on the other hand, I suspect SE are keeping carefully in reserve for later implementation with future level cap increases, as we have already seen this with Goring Blade (which was originally an old 1.0 GLA weaponskill that disappeared when 1.0's classes were redesigned), so a second AoE damage ability/weaponskill in the future like War Drum is entirely possible. But I guess we will see more or less.

[Kabooa]

I just find it an interesting argument to claim that ATB and GCD are somehow inherently different, when they're mechanically exactly the same.

I don't think you understand what exactly means.

The only possible argument that might link the two to be similar is by greatly stretching what the definition of a Turn Based system is. The ATB is a turn based system, plain and simple, that has the -option- (Which itself can be enforced, removed, or left to the player's discretion varying on the game) of allowing turns to be overridden so long as the same priority level (Someone is 'ready' to act) exists. This means Cecil the Paladin might have hit '100' first and has the initiative, but if Golbez hits '100' as well while Cecil decides what his action will be, Golbez is allowed to act.

And again, the ATB system varies the player control over it by title. FFX uses it strictly in a turn based setting, while FF6 I believe allowed you to toggle from standard to turn based.

This contradicts heavily with Real Time systems. The ATB grants the illusion of real time, but it is not. FF14 is running a real time system.

Edit

But let's contribute to the topic for once >_>

Paladins need some minor adjustments (Shield Oath at 30 being the primary one) but otherwise are functioning well.

[ADVSS]

Active Time Battle was introduced in ff4, where the enemies didnt wait for you to input commands and "take your turn" before the turn-based part of the combat initiated, its not much different that how enemies will keep auto attacking here, the terminology might be off, but you guys knew what the poster meant,unless youre purposely derailing this cause you believe "PLD is perfect", I think that cos switching places with flash is not a good idea, at that part all tanks need a spammable aoe enmity generator. As far as an aoe damage ability, i think its very likely pld will get one in the next expansion. After all, they got catch up abilities this expansion, I think its safe to say that while pld is good phys mitigation tank, its also the one that seems to have failed a grade and is catching up with the rest of its classmates a year behind, literally. Unless they rework the job skills, I believe itll just keep being slightly behind the other two, i guess it just has way too many cooldowns from 1 to 50. .

[Kitfox]

See, that is actually not what Flash is meant to traditionally do anyway - it usually just debuffs the enemy with a blindness effect, which it does here, with the added function here of also being something of an AoE-spell-version of FFXI's Provoke by boosting hate. I think it's perfectly fine as it is - adding damage to it would just unbalance the ability completely. .

I know what Flash is supposed to do traditionally, but it's not fine as it is. Flash fills the same spot in the tank tool kit as Overpower and Unleash do, both of those inflict damage and make it so PLD AoE DPS is significantly behind the other tanks. That is an imbalance. Flash needs a damage component, or it needs to be replaced with another ability that has one. Enmity is not the problem, damage is (and nobody cares about the blind).

snip

ATB systems were used through FF4-9, then again in 10-2, 13 and 13-2. FF10 used a turn-based system with no ATB (think they called it 'CTB' Count Time Battle). None of these ATB system are strictly turn-based, in the sense that they do have a real time component when toggled to "active" instead of "wait."

The major difference between the 4-9 era and all the things that came after that, is that in the early days of ATB, enemy and player turns couldn't happen at the same time. However, after X-2, 13 and so on, this changed and it was in fact possible for different turns to happen simultaneously. All the actors in battle had their own ATB gauges. These systems are very similar to FF14 but they've added a movement component as well. If all those elements make FF14 a 'real time battle' to you, then that's fine, it's really a semantic question. I think it's more of a hybrid system, like all the other ATB systems, where they combine real-time elements with turn-based elements.

Now, when I said ATB is GCD, I meant more specifically the ATB gauge mechanic. Whether you wait until '100' or wait '2.50' is completely irrelevant, mechanically it's a timer that you wait for to use your turn. Maybe GCD has connotations that I'm not aware of, but in the context of FF14 you could use both interchangeably. I actually find it weird they used the term GCD from the start, instead of ATB, considering the history they have with ATB systems.

[Lyth]

PLD would benefit from a GCD AoE move in its kit. The problem is that MP is a throwaway resource on a PLD. As a result, skills which use MP cost you dps to use, either by not doing damage (i.e. Flash) or because they have cast times (i.e Clemency).

A way around this would be to give PLD an AoE spell with a cast time (i.e. Banish III) and let blocks have a chance to give you a swiftcast proc that you can spend on a spell of your choice. You'd then make decisions about whether to spend these procs on dps, or on your utility/healing moves (i.e. Clemency).

The other alternative would be something like Circle Blade, which could cost TP.

Now, when I said ATB is GCD

I don't want to get embroiled in this derailing discussion, but ATB (Active Time Battle) refers to a battle system. The individual "turns" in an ATB system are not referred to as Active Time Battles. It is incorrect to say "It is now time for me to perform an action, my Active Time Battle has come up!" Irrespective of whether you feel that FFXIV is using a spiritual variant of the ATB system, using the acronyms ATB and GCD interchangeably makes little sense.

[Caitlyn]

I would like to use Raise (conjurer cross skill) during battle, too.
In fact, PLD got too many cross skills, which arent very usefull.

[Kitfox]

A way around this would be to give PLD an AoE spell with a cast time (i.e. Banish III) and let blocks have a chance to give you a swiftcast proc that you can spend on a spell of your choice. You'd then make decisions about whether to spend these procs on dps, or on your utility/healing moves (i.e. Clemency).

This is actually one of the better ideas I've heard. They would really have to change how block works during spell casting for this, though. It's bizarre that you can not block while casting spells, especially since in the beginning mages had one-handed weapons and shields as an option.

It is incorrect to say "It is now time for me to perform an action, my Active Time Battle has come up!"

It's not wrong to say your ATB gauge has come up, which is what I implied, quite specifically. In normal speech the 'gauge' drops and people usually refer to the wait time as ATB, at least that's how I've always referred to it. Even the games itself refer to the gauge with the term ATB, as there is equipment and Crystarium levels with a stat ATB level, ATB+1, ATB capacity and so on. ATB can refer to the whole system, or to the ATB gauge, I thought I made that very clear in my comment. If you refer to the gauge, then ATB and GCD are very much the same thing. I do agree Global Cooldown is a more descriptive name, but this is all just semantics really.