Pld Oath's on GCD

[SpookyGhost]

nop never, plus the benefic of Shiel oath/grit vs defiance you are forgething one important think and is paladins and dark knigths dont have some skills lock behind the tank stance and another few in dps stance, paladin and dark knigths can use all they skills no matter the stance up (except blood weapon).

This is a fair argument, though realistically WAR only needs to be in Defiance to use IB and Equal when Unchained is up anyway. The extra 20% mitigation (on top of it not being flat 20%) isn't really necessary most of the time. An example of a 60s CD rotation for WAR could be IB + Equal + Thrill + Convo -> Vengeance + RI -> repeat. For shorter TBs you simply have to space things out a bit more. Regardless, though, you are right in that Sheltron and DA + DM (which are essentially their answers to IB) are available out of tank stance and this can make PLD/DRK tankier without costing themselves DPS. However, the main argument for oGCD stances I think isn't really related to that, but rather how clunky it feels to turn off and on their stances vs WARs - which, imo, is a valid complaint, it just doesn't seem like one when the only time you use tank stance is in your opener. Wait until 3.4 prog then people will start complaining again I'm sure.

[Brannigan]

Defiance, the only tank stance that is off global and doesn't cost mana has the downside of NOT making you tankier as soon as it is applied

This is always the argument against, buy why does it matter? Tank stances don't need to be 100% equal. Warrior has other advantages that easily make up for paladin and dark knight gaining that edge over them. Dark Knight manages to do fine on DPS without a direct Fight or Flight/Berserk analog, for example.

[Lambdafish]

This is always the argument against, buy why does it matter? Tank stances don't need to be 100% equal. Warrior has other advantages that easily make up for paladin and dark knight gaining that edge over them. Dark Knight manages to do fine on DPS without a direct Fight or Flight/Berserk analog, for example.

This! The arguement against the change is "That would make PLD OP". Really? PLD? OP? In this meta? If anything, having the ability to stance dance into DPS stance would bring it more in line with the other tanks.

[Lyth]

If you make Shield Oath oGCD, you essentially remove the damage penalty associated with it. It then becomes an on-demand Rampart which only costs MP to use, and MP is a bit of a throwaway resource on PLD as it is. You now have a physical + magical sheltron with a negligible recast.

Deliverance removed one of the biggest costs for stance dancing on WAR. Swapping out of stance also used to cost you all of your stacks in 2.x.

[Sweetgrass]

The only problem is that, if PLD Oaths/Grit were off GCD, it would be a heavy buff to the classes, as they would be able to flick them on/off on demand. Of course, this would bring the classes closer to WAR's throne of dominance, which obviously the devs cannot do.

Joking aside, I don't know why they are still on GCD, the change is much needed when WAR has every advantage possible in the game right now compared to the other two tanks.

[Shurrikhan]

The only problem is that, if PLD Oaths/Grit were off GCD, it would be a heavy buff to the classes, as they would be able to flick them on/off on demand.

You can already flick Oaths on/off on demand more so than Warrior can "on demand" change stances; it's just every cost but immediate availability that need looking into. I would assume a limiting factor besides more mana would be used to reach the same sort of restrictions on Oaths even if made oGCD, be that through a CD, bringing in a new resource system for each that does not carry over so easily as stacks of Wrath or Abandon, using a psuedo-GCD like Meditation or Empyreal Arrow that reduces time spent while cooling (can swap instantly only once every so often, after which it becomes a full GCD and gradually cools down to a oGCD again), or even changing Sword Oath to a situational ability so that Paladin, too, has only one stance to swap into and out of.

[Sweetgrass]

You can already flick Oaths on/off on demand more so than Warrior can "on demand" change stances

You can't do it during your GCD, which is the main limiting factor. Not having to trade a GCD for your tank stance would let you use it similar to a cooldown, which would be pretty powerful.

How does Emp Arrow work? I hear a lot of BRDs say it's really smooth, not sure what it actually is.

[Shurrikhan]

You can't do it during your GCD, which is the main limiting factor. Not having to trade a GCD for your tank stance would let you use it similar to a cooldown, which would be pretty powerful.

How does Emp Arrow work? I hear a lot of BRDs say it's really smooth, not sure what it actually is.

I just meant that as far as mitigation goes, you're free to turn it on and off every 2.5 seconds or less, whereas War will have to wait 10 seconds to swap back. It's damn near "on-demand" as is. It's just the offensive costs that hurt, especially for PLD.

Whereas Meditation just uses a half-GCD (roughly -- doesn't actually scale as such), Emphyreal Arrow uses the same cast and animation lock time as any other Wanderer's Minuet (e.g. casted) Bard skill but is technically off-GCD. So, depending on when you use it, it can function basically alike to either a GCD or oGCD. The best way to put it though, is probably just an oGCD with a double-length animation lock. So if you fit it behind an instant-cast, it acts like any other oGCD, except that being twice as long you can't double-weave it. Its cooldown also scales with your Skill Speed, which helps prevent desync or lost proportion of use.

For Oaths, Meditation would probably be the smoother example, e.g. mana cost reduction on Grit and each Paladin Oath costs only half a GCD.

[Marxam]

I think people don't seem to understand that Defiance doesn't give any damage reduction. If a 10k tank buster hit a warrior in defiance with 10k hp, he will die instantly while a PLD or DRK with 10k hp will only get hit for 8k in their respective tank stances and if a warrior switched from Deliverance to Defiance he would still be sitting at 8k hp which would still kill him. This is without taking into account and defensive cool downs. This a point right here validates why warrior's tank stance is more flexible as this one simple act of pro and con necessitates why it needs to be ogcd.

[Marxam]

I think people don't seem to understand that Defiance doesn't give any damage reduction. If a 10k tank buster hit a warrior in defiance with 10k hp, he will die instantly while a PLD or DRK with 10k hp will only get hit for 8k in their respective tank stances and if a warrior switched from Deliverance to Defiance he would still be sitting at 8k hp which would still kill him. This is without taking into account and defensive cool downs. This a point right here validates why warrior's tank stance is more flexible as this one simple act of pro and con necessitates why it needs to be ogcd.

Here's and old post that I feel best explains why warriors have their stances off gcd.

Producer and director Yoshi-P here.

I understand that all our warriors out there are eager to know what patch 2.1 has in store for them. While we’re still in the testing stages, I’d like to give you a preview of what we have planned. Please keep in mind that warrior is still being tested in all encounters available in 2.1, and the following information is subject to change.

Marauder Changes

• Brutal Swing

  - Recast time will be reduced from 30 to 20 seconds, increasing the frequency with which players can stun foes.

• Overpower

  - Enmity generated by this skill has been increased.

• Storm's Eye

  - TP cost will be reduced from 70 to 60.

• Storm's Path

  - TP cost will be reduced from 90 to 60.
  - This skill will also reduce damage dealt by enemies for a period of time.

• Holmgang

  - Range will be increased from 3 yalms to 6, to make the skill more effective.
  - This skill will now pull enemies toward your character. *As of 3.38 this is still not working as intended, specifically in pvp.
  - When using this skill, a player's HP cannot be reduced lower than 1.
  - The animation for this skill will be revised. (See screenshot above)

• Vengeance

  - This skill will also reduce damage taken by 30%.

• Mercy Stroke

  - Recast time will be reduced from 60 to 40 seconds, improving ease of use.

• Thrill of Battle

  - Effect duration will be extended from 10 to 20 seconds.

Warrior Changes

• Defiance

  - Enmity generated by this skill will be increased.
  - This skill will also increase HP recovery via curing magic by 20%.

• Wrath

  - The improved healing effect granted by Wrath will be removed. Instead, the improved healing effect will be granted by Defiance.

• Inner Beast

  - Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
  - Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.

• Steel Cyclone

  - This skill will generate increased enmity.

• Unchained

  - Recast time will be reduced from 180 to 120 seconds, improving ease of use.

The main focus of these changes—as the seasoned warriors among you have already observed— was Inner Beast and its HP absorption effect. With these changes, warriors will no longer be dependent on a single skill to recover HP, and have overall improved defense.

To put it simply, we want to ensure the role of warriors as durable tanks. This is why we've also adjusted the effects of Wrath and Defiance. As currently implemented, warriors are forced to lose their healing bonus when using certain skills. However, these changes will allow players to use their warrior skills without sacrificing improved healing, and also maintain the critical hit bonus of Wrath.

Although warrior will no longer recover immense amounts of HP in a single use of Inner Beast, these changes should improve the overall defensive capability of warriors and the ability to heal them using a support class or job.

Patch 2.1 may seem a long way off, but please understand that we have to test these balance changes not only in encounters to be introduced in the upcoming patch, but all existing encounters as well.
(Please refer to a previous post for details on why we cannot break up patch 2.1)
While I regret having to keep you waiting, I am confident these changes, along with the numerous additions we have planned for patch 2.1, will be well worth your patience.