Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[Brian_]

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You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaningless weeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

[Neophyte]

You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaninglessweeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

Which part of gear is replaced after "a few weeks"? It's more like "3-6 months", depending on gear.

Also people should stop treating this game (or any game) like a retirement arrangement plan where you have to think about "where do I get the best return for my Investment". Just play the stupid game or don't, that's not a tax declaration.

I know a lot of people who are not subbed all the time (like 1 month stop every 2-3 months) and I know a lot of people currently playing Overwatch, No Man's Sky, etc. and only returning for raids&stuff 3 times a week.
I for myself just started healing after 100+d playtime and even que for Mhach or other stuff where I already got my weekly lockout, like A5S/A6S kills, Niddhog, etc.. or I help the boyfriend of an FC member who just started the game. Also I'm usually not doing any farms, just kill groups for ex primals, because they're more fun to play compared with standardized burn&farm groups.
No one of them would play this game more often, if there were longer lasting rewards.. why should they? Because they want to "work their ass off and be rewarded for that."? Well, they already do that... at work.

Like I'd say to the 2-month-sub/1-month-unsub - guy: "Hey, don't unsub now, you won't get the ultra long term reward then!" and he'd say "Oh yea, I totally stay subbed now and play, although I wanted to start some of my not yet touched steam games instead and take a break."..

Totally.. NOT. In my opinion you're totally overestimating gear/rewards in terms of motivation to play a game.

You may think "I only log on, if it's beneficial regarding reward". I just think "I log on, if I want to heal/tank/dps a FF14 fight."

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaningless weeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

A time investment which requires no skill or actual effort and will inherently become easier over time even without better RNG. Would that same frustration not manifest if say, you had to clear Nidhogg EX 267 times before finally getting a Pigeon drop while I managed the exact same accomplishment in only 23? Because I can tell you right now if the reverse happened, well, a quote from FFIX sums up my opinion of the game nicely: "I'm sharpening my knife, kupo." I'd have put in only a tenth of the effort and walked away with the same reward. We are not talking about progression gear or achievements, but RNG. Like I said already, you are not going to convince someone bored of the game to stay because they got lucky one day. Sure, the initial euphoria may sate them for a bit, however it will wear off when they're now faced with yet again wondering what to do.

Content that necessitates skill, like raiding, I do think should remain relevant longer, and its rewards not so easily squished. But RNG isn't rewarding. It's just dumb luck.

[zosia]

A time investment which requires no skill or actual effort and will inherently become easier over time even without better RNG. Would that same frustration not manifest if say, you had to clear Nidhogg EX 267 times before finally getting a Pigeon drop while I managed the exact same accomplishment in only 23? Because I can tell you right now if the reverse happened, well, a quote from FFIX sums up my opinion of the game nicely: "I'm sharpening my knife, kupo." I'd have put in only a tenth of the effort and walked away with the same reward. We are not talking about progression gear or achievements, but RNG. Like I said already, you are not going to convince someone bored of the game to stay because they got lucky one day. Sure, the initial euphoria may sate them for a bit, however it will wear off when they're now faced with yet again wondering what to do.

Content that necessitates skill, like raiding, I do think should remain relevant longer, and its rewards not so easily squished. But RNG isn't rewarding. It's just dumb luck.

You're still missing the point. This pattern of devaluing time invested into the game needs to be addressed on all fronts. No one has problems with reasonable nerfs and nerfs over time, but what this game does turns players off to staying subbed long term. It only takes 2-3 patches to figure you out only need to really sub a few months a year to have the exact same character progression as someone subbed year around. This causes less people to stick around and that sort of apathy always leads to more lost subs.

Like in your post where you use Yokai as an example. Why are we going to grind out all the weapons and the glowing mount when SE will just put the rewards in the cash shop like they did from the lightning returns event? After the Yokai event ends, people that missed it will whine so much that SE will ultimately put them in the cash shop.

These are the incentive problems we are talking about. Why try now when you know there will be a much easier approach to come later?

[CookieMonsta]

A time investment which requires no skill or actual effort and will inherently become easier over time even without better RNG. Would that same frustration not manifest if say, you had to clear Nidhogg EX 267 times before finally getting a Pigeon drop while I managed the exact same accomplishment in only 23? Because I can tell you right now if the reverse happened, well, a quote from FFIX sums up my opinion of the game nicely: "I'm sharpening my knife, kupo." I'd have put in only a tenth of the effort and walked away with the same reward. We are not talking about progression gear or achievements, but RNG. Like I said already, you are not going to convince someone bored of the game to stay because they got lucky one day. Sure, the initial euphoria may sate them for a bit, however it will wear off when they're now faced with yet again wondering what to do.

Content that necessitates skill, like raiding, I do think should remain relevant longer, and its rewards not so easily squished. But RNG isn't rewarding. It's just dumb luck.

Yes and no, you can't underestimate the attractive power of RnG. Its the whole psychology of why gambling is so potent. However, everybody has different tolerances to risk and reward thus some are drawn and motivated more than others. Some RnG is good because it delays predictable outcomes, however, the real devil you speak of is unshielded RnG. That is True RnG, this is the real killer that causes all but the most tolerant people to unsub.

[Cakekizyy]

If you think it's trash, why are you still here?

[Jynx]

If you think it's trash, why are you still here?

It's like you think this wasn't asked and answered several times in this thread alone.

Some people feel the game is lacking and feel it could be better, that's why we are here making suggestions instead of just off and quitting, that's me at least.

So if you thought you actually had something to add to the discussion...what is it? Certainly not this I hope.

There is difference between thinking it can be improved and saying it belongs in garbage heap.

Of course. There is also a difference between enjoying the game as it is and defending any and all of it's flaws without fail.

There are fanatics on both sides of the fence, you didn't seem to be speaking to anyone specifically though and just painting broad strokes about the thread and those who are posting in it.

[Cakekizyy]

There is difference between thinking it can be improved and saying it belongs in garbage heap.

[zosia]

There is difference between thinking it can be improved and saying it belongs in garbage heap.

Take a look at my post history, plenty of times in the past I tried to provide well thought out constructive feedback. I am done being civil with a dev team that does not deliver. After extra retainers, my sub WAS running me close to $30 a month and I expect a high level of excellence for that, a level which the dev team cannot manage to meet.

To answer you previous question, my sub is canceled as we speak. I have enough prepaid time to probably finish a12s, then I am gone. This dev team makes rookie mistakes right and left. This game has been dumpstered by heavenward, sorry if you have a problem with people calling it like it is.

A game losing roughly 25% of it's end game player base in seven months during the game's first real expansion is a terrible sign. At this point, I am just enjoying all the schadenfreude. I pleaded with the community back in 2015 about the concerns I had pertaining to the state of the end game, namely gordias savage. The casual crew did it's typical humming and hawing in the threads and none of the concerns were ever addressed or commented on by the community team. Now those savage birds are coming home to roost and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE being right.

Put two and two together, bub. This is the victory dance, and I will be enjoying myself for some time.