Limit breaks

[Roaran]

The mechanic known as "Limit Break" from FFVII, is reflected in the gameplay of 'weapon skills' in both FFXI and FFXIV. They are nearly identical. The only difference is the frequency of use and potency.

This difference naturally tends to make, for lack of a better word, "Limit Breaks" more 'epic'. So, naturally, players would dream about being able to perform such 'epicness'.

But, because Weapon Skills are likely here to stay, players should look at some other gameplay mechanics that might be used rarely like the Limit Breaks, but are accomplished through another means.

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However, if you are really determined to get something similar... best I can come up with is... how about after you use a WS, you get special TP, and once your special TP is full, you can use some special move.....

It is really redundant.... but that is essentially what you are asking for.

[Ruinaru]

Weaponskills are like limit breaks, yes, we get that. But as has been several times, weaponskills can be spammed repeatedly in FFXIV, 90% of them don't do much more than a regular attack, and most of the animations are fairly lackluster. There are a few cool ones, but what the OP and others are asking for is something that transcends the limits of "weaponskills" in FFXIV.

A "Limit Break" in FFXIV would be something that charges up very slowly, on a bar separate from TP. Imagine in the UI you have one long bar situated under your HP, MP, and TP. As you perform class-specific actions (such as healing for CON/WHM, taking damage for GLA/PLD, dealing damage with weaponskills or magic for PUG/MNK, THM/BLM, and LNC/DRG, and buffing/debuffing friends and foes for ARC/BRD) this long bar fills up very slowly. It doesn't deplete when you exit battle/active mode, and the gain is designed so that every class can build up their "Limit Break Gauge" at about the same speed. Maybe it takes about 45 minutes to an hour to fill the gauge in normal circumstances.

Now, once this bar is filled up you gain access to one or several moves which are appropriately more powerful than any of your other weaponskills or spells based on the difficulty involved in accessing them. These won't be overpowered moves with effects like "Kills any enemy in one hit" or "Negates any and all damage for the remainder of the fight." It'll be stuff with situational use. Stuff that can get you out of a tight spot when you bit off more than you could chew, or help you take out the last 10% of a tough boss. Maybe a lancer could instantly get 3000 TP and have the TP cost of all weaponskills halved for 30 seconds. They'd have to balance that power with their enmity to avoid getting killed in the process, and so it all balances itself out.

Nobody wants to get rid of weaponskills. We want something truly impressive to use every now and then. When you can spam Doom Spike and Concussive Blow and Red Lotus every few seconds they lose their luster. They're good moves, maybe, but they're part of your normal arsenal. A Limit Break is NOT something that is part of your normal arsenal. It's a special attack that you'd only want to use in special occasions, and which you have to build up in order to access. The majority of your combat ability would still fall on your regular attacks and weaponskills.

[Rentahamster]

A "Limit Break" in FFXIV would be something that charges up very slowly, on a bar separate from TP. Imagine in the UI you have one long bar situated under your HP, MP, and TP. As you perform class-specific actions (such as healing for CON/WHM, taking damage for GLA/PLD, dealing damage with weaponskills or magic for PUG/MNK, THM/BLM, and LNC/DRG, and buffing/debuffing friends and foes for ARC/BRD) this long bar fills up very slowly. It doesn't deplete when you exit battle/active mode, and the gain is designed so that every class can build up their "Limit Break Gauge" at about the same speed. Maybe it takes about 45 minutes to an hour to fill the gauge in normal circumstances.

The unintended result of this would be "limit gauge farming" parties where players max out their limit gauge as fast as possible so that they enter any boss fight with a full meter.

If the limit break move is strong enough, then it will pretty much be a necessity for any boss fight.

[Ruinaru]

The unintended result of this would be "limit gauge farming" parties where players max out their limit gauge as fast as possible so that they enter any boss fight with a full meter.

If the limit break move is strong enough, then it will pretty much be a necessity for any boss fight.

Limit Break farming has always been a part of Final Fantasy. In FFX I'd make sure every character and aeon had a full overdrive gauge before going into a tough boss fight. The difference here would be to design the Limit Break abilities in a way that they aren't game-breakingly powerful.

Look at the 2-hour abilities in FFXI. Paladins could become completely invincible to physical and magical damage for 30 seconds, and gain an enormous amount of enmity every two hours. Game breaking? Not at all. But it sure made for a great chance for the healers to catch their breath and let some enmity issues settle down at a crucial point in a fight. White Mage's 2-hour ability fully healed the HP of everyone not only in their party, but in an entire 18-man alliance. It also generated immense hate, and had to be used sparingly.

The point is, we can have really strong abilities which rarely see the light, without having them turn the game into easy-mode. They could give boss monsters limit gauges too, imagine the excitement of fighting a Behemoth or something with a thin red meter filling up slowly under its name. You have to make a choice: make a big push to finish it off before the gauge fills, or buckle down and brace for impact from Meteor, or Thunderbolt, or some other enormous AoE attack.

I feel like Limit Breaks would be an excellent way to add more complexity to battles and inject a huge amount "FF-feel" into the game.

[thepoet03]

I personally would like to see 3 levels of skills a 15 min one a 30 min one and a 1 hour one. A 15 min one would be great cause you could use it in each ifrit fight.

[Rentahamster]

Limit Break farming has always been a part of Final Fantasy. In FFX I'd make sure every character and aeon had a full overdrive gauge before going into a tough boss fight.

FF10 is a single player game. The only person you are waiting on is yourself. In an MMO, you have to take into consideration others as well. If limit breaks are a necessity for fighting bosses, then that adds another barrier to entry to joining a party. For example, take the whole controversy surrounding Sentinel.

"I'm making an Ifrit Party"
"I want to join"
"Do you have sentinel?"
"No"
"Ummm..."


"I'm making an Ifrit Party"
"I want to join"
"Do you have a full limit gauge?"
"No"
"Ummm..."

I'm not saying that this one thing makes the concept of limit breaks untenable. What I am saying is that there are serious unintended consequences that must be taken into consideration for the sake of balance and smooth party play.

[Ruinaru]

FF10 is a single player game. The only person you are waiting on is yourself. In an MMO, you have to take into consideration others as well. If limit breaks are a necessity for fighting bosses, then that adds another barrier to entry to joining a party. For example, take the whole controversy surrounding Sentinel.

"I'm making an Ifrit Party"
"I want to join"
"Do you have sentinel?"
"No"
"Ummm..."


"I'm making an Ifrit Party"
"I want to join"
"Do you have a full limit gauge?"
"No"
"Ummm..."

I'm not saying that this one thing makes the concept of limit breaks untenable. What I am saying is that there are serious unintended consequences that must be taken into consideration for the sake of balance and smooth party play.

That's the thing, though. I, for one, don't want Limit Breaks to be so important that you can't beat bosses without them. I want them to be an option in case something goes wrong, or if you wanna see some big numbers every now and then. The kinda thing that just builds up as you do stuff and then you keep it handy until you really need it. You never really saw people using their 2-hours in FFXI just for fun, because they prefer to have them ready "just in case." The same, I think, would happen here.

I don't think "Do you have a full limit gauge?" is really that huge of a deal. I can't see it being the kind of thing that leads to a lot of people being excluded from things, because I can't imagine that a lot of people would just walk around with an empty gauge. Especially if they're actively trying to do something like Ifrit, or some other primal where they know they might need it. Way, way less of a deal than having to level another class just to get a particular skill.

Of course there are checks and balances that need to be in place, but that's what game designers get paid to do. I'm sure Limit Breaks could be incorporated into FFXIV, and I don't see it requiring that much effort on the balance/consequences front.

[Aenarion]

That's the thing, though. I, for one, don't want Limit Breaks to be so important that you can't beat bosses without them.

You underestimate the haughtiness of mmo communities then, if it's gonna be of any substantial utility, then it WILL become the de-facto standard. Just took at Sentinel - it's not so important that you can't beat Ifrit without it, but guess what?

yea, that's what I thought.

[Ruinaru]

You underestimate the haughtiness of mmo communities then, if it's gonna be of any substantial utility, then it WILL become the de-facto standard. Just took at Sentinel - it's not so important that you can't beat Ifrit without it, but guess what?

yea, that's what I thought.

It may become the standard strategy but that doesn't make it the only strategy. They worked in FFXI as 2-hours, and I can't understand what it is that's changed so much that they can't work here.

And again, filling up your Limit Gauge doesn't seem like such a horrible thing to do before fighting a boss. What game have you ever played where you don't have to make preparations before entering a big fight? Filling a limit gauge is nothing compared to levelling another class for access to one skill.

[Acydcross]

If we are talking about "Limit Breaks" and/or "2 hours (from FFXI)" - It would be awesome if SE make it like from FFVIII wich is you need to have yellow hp (10%-15% hp left) before you can use it. So no need for more 'bars' for it and no need for 'timers' but risky to activate.