As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[AlphaSonic]

Some comments here are elitist like 'Im not playing with bad players' etc Im not complaining just stating a fact

No, they don't want to play with lazy players. That's a different thing.

Let me ask you a question. If you enjoy Scholar, but you don't like 2/3 of their playstyle that consists about DPS and micromanaging the fairy, why would play it? You don't like the class, you just like 1/3 of the class.

If you don't like cleric stance, you don't like using a healer in this game. Cleric comes with all the set that a healer has in this game. Even if you main heal, you will need to use cleric in this game, because there's no fight that is a constant healing check.
If you want to play a healer that doesn't DPS, that's not the game for you. Complain to SE about why there isn't a healer with 0 DPS capabilities, just support and healing.

This thread is not about complaining that you don't like DPS. If you don't like DPS as a healer make another thread about how much it bothers you to DPS as a healer.

[Dsync]

Some comments here are elitist like 'Im not playing with bad players' etc Im not complaining just stating a fact

There is nothing 'elitist' for not wanting to play with players who refuse to pull their weight. People DO NOT want to carry leeches. That is not elitist. It is entirely selfish to think people are duty-bound to carry you when you can't be bothered.

[Feyona]

Let me ask you a question. If you enjoy Scholar, but you don't like 2/3 of their playstyle that consists about DPS and micromanaging the fairy, why would play it? You don't like the class, you just like 1/3 of the class.

If you don't like cleric stance, you don't like using a healer in this game.
If you want to play a healer that doesn't DPS, that's not the game for you. Complain to SE about why there isn't a healer with 0 DPS capabilities, just support and healing.

This thread is not about complaining that you don't like DPS. If you don't like DPS as a healer make another thread about how much it bothers you to DPS as a healer.

Unfortunitey, when I started playing scholar no one was there to tell me it was a dps class I believed It was a healer and I enjoyed the playstyle. Surprisingly enough I played it as a healer. Only later on I found out it wasnt, meant to be healed with only if necessary

[Judge_Xero]

You referring to november one? Idk tbh why I cast succor in that fight 22 times cant remember tbh. Why is that relevant? Unless its meant to show Im not an expert player, and Ive already said that Im not.

It was simply in reference to what I quoted from you

I see here is posts that state that healers got nothing else to do but dps in between healing, either your in low content, or your in good groups, the majority of groups Im in you dont get the space really, like I said I can perform to 'maximum efficiency' if im with a good healer and with a good team. I join alot of casual groups that do require both healers usually. I am a very active player that helps alot of people clear too. In my experience most groups need alot of healing, not dps. Many of you may just play with friends or statics, which is a completey different scenario

I felt it was relevant given your above statement because:
- you were in a pretty decent group
- your WHM pretty much solo healed the fight
- you not only did almost 0 DPS but also spammed Succor forcing the BRD to play Ballad when Paeon was needed due to how much the melee needed to AOE the groups of adds since there was no SCH DPS.

It is not to show that you aren't an expert player by any means. Just that your statements appear to be mostly false about giving effort and still being ridiculed.

I mean, that was back in November and a lot can happen in 3 months, but given your current stand on the healer meta I imagine things are similar?

[Feyona]

There is nothing 'elitist' for not wanting to play with players who refuse to pull their weight. People DO NOT want to carry leeches. That is not elitist. It is entirely selfish to think people are duty-bound to carry you when you can't be bothered.

At the time I recall enquiring if people should or could alwys make that assumption. Sometimes its not always obvious. Then it was stated that healers not dpsing is lazy too. Must add though I wasnt referring to you I was resonding the the geral trend of some of the posts

[Feyona]

It was simply in reference to what I quoted from you



I felt it was relevant given your above statement, because it is a perfect example of how a SCH has ample time to support a group with DPS, but didn't. Not only that but Succor isn't cheap and I wouldn't be surprised if that also cut into the BRD's output having to use Mage's Ballad.

It is not to show that you aren't an expert player by any means. Just that your statements appear to be mostly false.

I will amend that then to meanig allow me to play at mximum efficiency. Mostly false? Now Im being accused of making things up and I can assure you that I am not. Simply misinterpreted or misleading the way I put it. Tbh I think we were all learning at the time I think I remember my co healer ( the wmg )asking me to help him heal the acid rain and faust.

[Cynfael]

snip

I'll go over this again briefly.

The reason why messing with healing potency and/or damage sustained by players without fundamentally changing game mechanics is an ineffective way to make healing more fun or engaging is that, in either case, you don't accomplish much beyond making healers hit the same buttons more frequently. I don't believe that consuming more GCDs for healing actions (rather than having the healing accomplished in fewer GCDs, which allows for more DPS actions) is a recipe for fun.

When you have games where healers need to chain healing actions on a regular basis to counter predictable threats, the criticism is often that such characters are "heal bots." The gameplay style is not particularly engaging; it just looks busy because you have to lean on your healing hotkeys and play catch-up. In a game like this, where encounters are scripted to the extent that you can memorize boss fights and reasonably predict how even mob pulls in dungeons will play out, making healers use more actions to heal the same content would be a terrible thing to do to us. It's only in games where lethal damage is at least somewhat unpredictable and twitch skills are highly valued (i.e. what many think of as "whack-a-mole" healing) that the "more healing" model can shine, at least IMO.

And yes, the question of whether or not something is really wrong with the current system is obviously quite arguable. We, collectively, have been arguing it for many pages across numerous threads. Personally I think that, while there is always room for improvement, this game's dynamic that encourages efficient, planned use of healing actions and frequent use of DPS actions is generally fine.

[Judge_Xero]

I will amend that then to meanig allow me to play at mximum efficiency. Mostly false? Now Im being accused of making things up and I can assure you that I am not. Simply misinterpreted or misleading the way I put it

Absolutely I am not accusing you of making things up.
While like you I am also fairly new to playing Scholar, but under an almost identical situation in the same fight in the same month with very similar gear (by the looks of average heals of the Fairy), I brought to my group:
- more useful mitigation (Deployed Adlo VS Succor for Acid Rain. Timed Virus for Tank busters)
- significantly less MP usage. (I go out of MP @ 11 casts of Succor and you used 22?!?!)
- 1300 DPS vs 100
- 120s faster clear time

So how come you weren't able to do the same or better, if you try to do all these things under "ideal" conditions?

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*** I say identical as well in the sense that the party took nearly identical damage not counting the additional mitigation I provided. Other than in my group MT Tank damage was about 15% higher.

[Feyona]

No, they don't want to play with lazy players. That's a different thing.



If you don't like cleric stance, you don't like using a healer in this game. Cleric comes with all the set that a healer has in this game. Even if you main heal, you will need to use cleric in this game, because there's no fight that is a constant healing check.
If you want to play a healer that doesn't DPS, that's not the game for you. Complain to SE about why there isn't a healer with 0 DPS capabilities, just support and healing.

This thread is not about complaining that you don't like DPS. If you don't like DPS as a healer make another thread about how much it bothers you to DPS as a healer.

I get your point, I think mostly my posts have been about wether it is my job but its difficult to separate that one without stating why you dont think it is or why you think it shouldnt be

[Feyona]

So how come you weren't able to do the same or better, if you try to do all these things under "ideal" conditions?

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*** I say identical as well in the sense that the party took nearly identical damage not counting the additional mitigation I provided. Other than in my group MT Tank damage was about 15% higher.

In a way Im new to raiding, well, actually Ive only just started serious raiding. Im just learnng to play scholar this way. And now Im learning wmg as a raider. I think thats why I made the points cos some dont give you chance to learn the expect you to know, if not they want you to know so your not given alot of chance cos people dont alwys have the time to invest in people learning stuff we cant always get good groups to play with plus I may not be able to play as well as you, not cos I dont try though. Ill admit Im not one of the most efficient players, through habit my go to spells are heals if the group looks in difficulty in the attempt succor may give some space to dps but still didnt feel 'safe' to dps