As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Shurrikhan]

In a nutshell a certain youtuber was around spreading the word on how full str was so good and how tanks, warriors mostly could do the same dps as a dps class and how str was great for every tank as it helped them to keep aggro. So pretty a good amount of tanks, newbies included jumped in that bandwagon and were going full str.

At the same time tank stance dancing became popular too, i got to the point i had to heal through a large pull with a full str pld (like 7k hp) on sword oath. Good times.

A PLD using Sword Oath in a mass pull when it has no AoE... *Cringe.* Right, reduce the healer's actually existent, and legitamately powerful, AoE, for your auto-attack damage...
I could see dropping Shield Oath just before CoS and then turning it right back on, maybe. But that's it.

At least some of us will now Clemency when Bulwark/Awareness aren't up instead. Yay greater AoE uptime.

(Btw, anyone remember that one Shield to Sword swap bug that let you have Shield Oath enmity during Sword Oath damage...?)

[mp-please]

A PLD using Sword Oath in a mass pull when it has no AoE... *Cringe.* Right, reduce the healer's actually existent, and legitamately powerful, AoE, for your auto-attack damage...
I could see dropping Shield Oath just before CoS and then turning it right back on, maybe. But that's it.

It was on the 2nd large pull on wanderer's palace HM after the 2nd boss, you know that one path with 3 totems? And the madman pulled them all on sword oath, full str.
Needless to say it was a wipe. But the funny part is that i did kept him alive, he just didn't kept aggro from me, once holy stuns ran out everything was on me

[KaitlanKela]

The other thing to point out is that healers dps (I don't play ast, disclaimer) is most effective on large groups. So if you're pulling big, the healer can put out even more mitigation than usual by dpsing. If they're still just standing there healing, that's a major handicap as far as putting down a large group quickly is concerned.

I see you point, and as I said, out works for you. But can we agree that a tank pulling normal is standard play, and a healer just healing and then idling is sub-standard, so it's really not fair to compare?

Furthermore, yes, the mentality that healers should only heal definitely comes from other games. FFXIV never encourages healers to only heal, in fact quite the opposite.

[KaitlanKela]

I would argue that single group pulling is satisfactory play. If you pull one group and then rotate your dps combo, that group dies faster than if you're spamming your hate combo/aoe hate skill on all the mobs in a large pull, because your dps is lower. The goal of a large pull is that the dps can use their aoe skills effectivity to clear the pull faster, but as far as tanking is concerned, both are efficient. Therefore both are acceptable play for a tank.

I would say pulling large is better only if there's actually a Dps increase because of it. The tank has actually losses dps on a big pull. So whether or not it's worth it depends on the skill of the Dps (not to mention of your healers dpsing or not, as mentioned in my prior post, an only healing healer might actually hurt you in a big pull because they're losing so much mitigation)

[Venjamin]

Snip

I think it's a question of what we are considering satisfactory, though. If "boring" is satisfactory, then I'd rather go beyond satisfactory. Additional DPS isn't more fun, it's just slightly more engaging than standing around, you know? I'd much rather be on the precipice of defeat 90% of the time. It would promote heal-only gameplay that isn't inherently terrible. Tanks would be more engaged because it'd require actual forethought to hold that much aggro. DPS would be more engaged to get ever-higher numbers. =x

But this is just an opinion.

[RopeDrink]

To me it's simple. There is no excuse. If you're standing there doing nothing and the choice is either:
a) Wait until someone needs a heal (add shielding to this bracket if you wish)...
b) Help kill something (things die quicker and less healing is needed in general)...

The right answer should be blatantly obvious. The only reasons I've seen to defend option a) often boils down to "It's not my job" or "I don't want to" or some variation, which I find mind-boggling as this simply means you have less to do and whatever content you're currently in takes longer in the process for all involved. Naturally we're talking situations where tanks are actually tanky and there are no aggro concerns so you have a bit of freedom. If you notice the tank is squishier than usual and/or he can't aggro a plastic bag without flailing around like a lunatic, then you have reason for caution. It's at a point where I hate being the non-Healer because 90% I've met today just stand there watching healthy players waiting to press Cure, when the mob could have been killed a minute ago. Nobody will ever question that Healing is top priority - but if you can see after a while that your tank is decent, you speed everything up even with minor contributions during downtime, nevermind actual rotations (I go full ham whenever I can) - but most choose not to.

[KaitlanKela]

I think it's a question of what we are considering satisfactory, though

I agree with most of that you're saying, honestly. I'd rather all roles play beyond satisfactorily as well. Ideally everyone should be pushing the envelope of what they're capable of all the time.

But, it's off topic. This thread was simply about trying to define what should be standard (think: minimum) acceptable play for healers. And if the healer is doing less than what is standard, sure it would be nice if the other players played exceptionally to cover the deficit, but that shouldn't be the expectation. The expectation should be everyone comes to the instance and pulls their own weight.

[Venjamin]

Snip

Fair. I think it might also be a perspective on the span of "healer" vs "support." If you look at MOBAs, they call their supports just that, even if they are a healer class, you know. Support makes it more open-ended, I think, and is easier to focus on "how do I support" rather than "what is minimum acceptable for 'healer.'" The confusion evaporates because a lot of people assume minimum acceptable for healer will be... healing.

[KaitlanKela]

Fair. I think it might also be a perspective on the span of "healer" vs "support." If you look at MOBAs, they call their supports just that, even if they are a healer class, you know. Support makes it more open-ended, I think, and is easier to focus on "how do I support" rather than "what is minimum acceptable for 'healer.'" The confusion evaporates because a lot of people assume minimum acceptable for healer will be... healing.

Oh, agree 100%. It's totally a perspective issue. Some people have just gotten the idea from the "healing" name attached to the roles that it's limited to healing only. Which is why we discuss it on the forums, to hopefully clear up the misconception in the most respectful way possible.

I also prefer to think of myself as a combat healer/support type role.

[CookieMonsta]

Fair. I think it might also be a perspective on the span of "healer" vs "support." If you look at MOBAs, they call their supports just that, even if they are a healer class, you know. Support makes it more open-ended, I think, and is easier to focus on "how do I support" rather than "what is minimum acceptable for 'healer.'" The confusion evaporates because a lot of people assume minimum acceptable for healer will be... healing.

Not just that, I noticed a decent proportion of people who purport healers heal only come from WOW. I fully understand their perspective because stuff hits harder in WoW, the Heals were less potent and the Mana drain was heavier.