As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Kitfox]

Creating a mini-game within the healing tools for healers to manage outside of DPS while increasing required healing seems like a fun idea. I still just worry about healers that can barely heal Creator Savage while others are able to DPS the majority of the time while keeping everyone up.

At least what we see currently with the healer DPS meta is that the healing requirements are pretty low so:
- healers that struggle just to heal can keep up
- healers that are more skilled can keep everyone alive while fitting in DPS where they can
- Top tier healers can just DPS 90% of the time

How would that get addressed so that we don't have players coming back here asking for the healing requirements get nerfed because they keep getting kicked from statics for not being able to keep everyone alive?

When we look at how DPS checks are balanced with enrages and burst checks in savage, is there any reason not to balance healers as strictly if they only had a healing kit? Would it really be unfair if at below minimum ilvl healers would need 90%+ throughput to keep up, when the DPS classes are expected to push at that level anyway?

If they wanted to make healers more healing centric, I think they should do that. They can't really get rid of the offensive side of healers though, since gear progression will increase that portion, and it would result in idle time for the top players. But increasing healing requirements across the board outside of mechanical bursts wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I do think that would require making the healing toolkits more interesting though, as the bread and butter heals are still just the basic HoT + cure/benefic/physick, which is incredibly bland if that is what you're required to spam for the majority of the time.

[Judge_Xero]

Does t have to be attuned to the very max healing potential, or are you allowed to take a breather for two second?

What I wanted to illustrate was sort of how the healer DPS meta formed. Absolutely we are allowed to take a breather for two seconds which is how SE inadvertently created healer DPS windows.

The key point is that my comparison was between skilled i255 max healing output VS i270 low/average potential with most players somewhere in between. What does this mean?

TLDR: Even if average players don't have the skill to even heal through content, skilled players are still going to DPS a lot.

After all humans arnt always so precise about movement. You still got your absorbs as well im guessing you didnt count them in your calculation. Smart though, Im not a numbers person myself. As for three difficulties Id think it would be set at a difficulty level that people according to statistics could do[/QUOTE]

When we look at how DPS checks are balanced with enrages and burst checks in savage, is there any reason not to balance healers as strictly if they only had a healing kit? Would it really be unfair if at below minimum ilvl healers would need 90%+ throughput to keep up, when the DPS classes are expected to push at that level anyway?

It would not be unfair at all IMO except when you look at how skilled healers create current DPS windows, VS others who struggle to simply heal.
(i.e. 3000 HPS with just regens combined with an extra 3000 HPS from just raw heals VS C2 spam with 50% overheal)

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

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Sebazy reminded me of this bringing up T1 btw. I wasn't a healer in BCOB so I never got to experience but I do remember the snakes hitting really hard to the point where:

- People needed to bait tail swipes to reduced some attacks on the tanks
- coordinating keeping regens on both tanks
- tanks cycling CD's to reduce average DTPS
- even @ i90 the Tank Kite strat where people would rejoin the two snakes and then have a tank kite/sprint around the arena while both healer tried to keep him alive waiting for LB to build. Healers at max ilvl still struggle with the heal check of T1 to the point the kite strat was made. Then OMG T2 most teams couldn't even beat without the Enrage strat because the healers couldn't even start to think about keeping up.

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

Exactly, and yet there's healers who can't grasp the level of damage going out at that point not realizing that a regen will cover the damage, who continually spam Benefic/Cure/Physic etc.

Imagine if it was 12k per hit, do you think most people could time a heal between two 12k hits and a 20k Divine Spear, and then have the tank topped and shielded for Punishing Heat?

Then consider the level of MP efficiency that would require, lol

[Feyona]

This is actually the pro-DPS argument of the thread. We players to at least try to maintain a wholesome view of their toolkit, and we are condeming lazy players who choose not to. I brought up (and was ignored because of more pointless moaning about the community) what the devs could do in content to keep healers more occupied so that their default isn't DPS, and that is a perfectly valid discussion.

Healer DPS isn't vital as a basis (though if you are trying to skip a phase, it is), but it is 150% better than overhealing/doing nothing.

Condeming is a bit of a strong word considering that none of you are forcing non dps healers, and no one is toxic towards them Even if some healers are not being lazy if they dont necessarily.

[Sebazy]

Hmmmm? I may be confused on your wording but Foes doesn't give BRD a DPS reduction like Ballad/Paeon.

Ooops nope you've got me there, I have it in my head something got changed with foes recently to make it less impactful on the brd themselves? Can't put my finger on it tho, guess 2 would be a cast time reduction or such?

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

[Kitfox]

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is. Some people can do a perfect dummy rotation but can't keep their DPS up with movement and mechanics. The only additional hurdle for healers is the risk involved with Cleric Stance, and that's probably something they should remove if they dramatically increase the healing load. That would mean healers would be as able as dps classes to do their healing "rotation" during mechanics while also having a fluid option of avoiding overheal with offensive GCDs, instead of the danger of mechanical mistake + Cleric penalty screwing them over twice as bad. This would also be in line with the changes they said would be coming to the DPS classes with the easing of buff up keep, such as Enochian.

[Sebazy]

- even @ i90 the Tank Kite strat

That and the T2 enrage strat were absolute abominations, I'm so glad my group never resorted to either <3

[dragonseth07]

Everyone should want to play the best they can. Actively choosing to play worse just makes no sense to me. So, it's pretty evident where I fall on Healer DPS.

Edit: Of course, this view is for an MMO. If you're playing Skyrim, fun and efficiency can be totally divorced.

[Lambdafish]

Condeming is a bit of a strong word considering that none of you are forcing non dps healers, and no one is toxic towards them Even if some healers are not being lazy if they dont necessarily.

Condemn: verb (used with object)
1. to indicate strong disapproval of

When christmas comes around, I'll buy you a dictionary, my treat

[Feyona]

Condemn: verb (used with object)
1. to indicate strong disapproval of

When christmas comes around, I'll buy you a dictionary, my treat

I dont need a dictionary to know what condemn means it even has the word strong in your definition of it. Therefore strong disaproval of people that dont dps hmm still a strong coerceon or 'force' if you like. but ofc no one is toxic towards healers are they? Or even anyone that sticks up for them

[Feyona]

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is.

I do think healing is very different from dps. In wow I cant even remember this thing of 'unfairness' being an issue everyone knew that healing was hard in its own way, as not everyone could heal, most healers had to have 'addons' to do it efficiently. It justwasnt about how much up time etc it was about skill or ability to heal fast enough. Yes this is a different game and healers are saying they want more to do but really in current content I have plenty to do to heal in my groups. its only low content I can dps 90% Maybe synching could do with a tweek. Healing just isnt an auto rotation it does require more thinking or alertness not just on the boss but on eight people, all of the time constant retargetting always having to be ready to change immediately. Whereas dps may be watching rotations cds or whatever healers do as well. Ast has cards too has to think when to use certain cds or buffs, same as dps, but dps know when adds are coming. Healers dont know when someone going to get hit. I will even say here that healer already carries more pressure. Yes dps got pressure to dps but healer is responsible for entire group then you think about coordination with other healer too. Isnt these facters 'more effort'. Tanks may have more or less i dont know but when I play my tank it doesnt seem as much