RDM Ideas, brainstorming and general dicussion

[Gemina]

Wow! Well thought out and displayed. Kudos to the amount of work you put in. Just some minor critiques, if you don't mind?

Name change only, effect is fine: Energy drain >>> Spirits Within

Next is a question, which is why have abilities cost MP if they already cost charges? OGCD abilities typically do not cost MP/TP at the cost of longer CDs. There could be a potential technical issue here. Perhaps have the elemental offensive magicks consume MP and can be buffed with charges? Just a thought. Also, the ability to silence a target in this game is more about interruption than a debuff. 10 seconds is a really long time for an enemy target to be unable to cast magic. I don't PvP, but I would also imagine this ability would have to be nerfed or excluded in those instances.

The last is with Refresh. MP management with WHM is one of their challenges and rightfully keeps their powerful abilities limited, and SCH has a nigh unlimited pool as is. I can't speak much for AST since I have not played the job. I believe that leaves DRK and PLD? But at this point it is unbalanced. I think refresh should be a self ability for RDM that turns them from meh to badass at a certain level (lv40) and allows them to greatly support the group, or seriously ramp up their DPS due to an extended MP pool of their own.

BTW, brains and brawn just might be the very reason to play RDM the way this is set up. This alone brings a fun and challenging aspect to the job that has me interested. And the name is CaF.

Very good job, and one of the best I've seen for an RDM suggestion.

[Duelle]

however one ability needs to be addressed, and that is Phalanx - Phalanx was an ability that previously appeared in version 1.0 as a GLA ability which worked completely differently to your idea (in 1.0, it was an effect that would make the character automatically counterattack if the player successfully blocked an enemy's weaponskill with their shield, making it somewhat like Shield Swipe). Thus I think SE are deliberately keeping Phalanx in reserve for later use with GLA/PLD with future level cap increases, along with other 'missing' 1.0 abilities.

Phalanx does make sense as a defensive cooldown/spell for RDM (since the whole idea of a phalanx is a defensive formation that is difficult to penetrate). Not to mention the likelyhood of PLD getting a passive reactive ability is rather low as revenge-type abilities are designed around player input rather than activating on their own independent of other actions/animations.

@OP:

I can see the intent behind the system, since you're treating melee skills are a sort of resource builder and make spells your resource spender depending on what combo you used to determine how many resources are spent.

Thematically I don't think ACN would be a good cross-class for RDM (I assume you're doing it for Eye for an Eye and Virus). Something else I wanted to mention is that in order for your spell mode buffs to work, you'd need to make your spells require them to be active. The base forms you've listed are sort of redundant (Inferno and Radial Magic), and if you're trying to go in the direction of modes you need to give each spell three different forms (one for Radial Magic, one for Decaying Magic and one for Charged Magic). Of course, you then have the risk of having spells that do similar things with different names (the additional effect from Decaying Magic).

I'd recommend cutting your elements down to three just to give yourself some breathing room design-wise. It'd even make sense since our THM/BLM is limited to three offensive elements, and RDM here like in the prior FFs should be borrowing from it to a degree.

Assuming you were to cut it down to Inferno/Cocytus/Levin:

Inferno: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals fire aspected damage with a potency of 100 to target and nearby enemies.
--Decaying Magic - Reduces target's damage resistance by 10% for 10s.
--Charged Magic - Deals fire aspected damage with a potency of 280.

Cocytus: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals ice aspected damage with a potency of 30 to target and nearby enemies. Additional effect: Slow for 15s.
--Decaying Magic - Binds target in place for 10s. Damage taken breaks the effect.
--Charged Magic - Afflicts target with Deep Freeze, preventing them from moving or acting for 20s. Should the frozen target receive damage from any source, target takes 10% additional damage from that attack and cancels the Deep Freeze effect.

Levin: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals lightning aspected damage with a potency of 30 to target and nearby enemies. Additional effect: Lightning damage over time with a potency of 30 for 18s.
--Decaying Magic - Deals lightning aspected damage with a potency of 50. Additional effect: Stun for 5s.
--Charged Magic - Afflicts target with Seizure, causing them to take damage every time they perform an action (auto-attacks and special attacks) for 12s.

[Morningstar1337]

I can see the intent behind the system, since you're treating melee skills are a sort of resource builder and make spells your resource spender depending on what combo you used to determine how many resources are spent.

Thank you.

Thematically I don't think ACN would be a good cross-class for RDM (I assume you're doing it for Eye for an Eye and Virus). Something else I wanted to mention is that in order for your spell mode buffs to work, you'd need to make your spells require them to be active. The base forms you've listed are sort of redundant (Inferno and Radial Magic), and if you're trying to go in the direction of modes you need to give each spell three different forms (one for Radial Magic, one for Decaying Magic and one for Charged Magic). Of course, you then have the risk of having spells that do similar things with different names (the additional effect from Decaying Magic).

I'd recommend cutting your elements down to three just to give yourself some breathing room design-wise. It'd even make sense since our THM/BLM is limited to three offensive elements, and RDM here like in the prior FFs should be borrowing from it to a degree.

Regarding Cross-class, In hindsight, I feel like Archer might be the better cross-class. Since most offensive casters need Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes and the "Support DPS" also has access to Raging and Blood for Blood (the latter unnecessary for my idea as I made sure to make a native version due to lack of cross class choices)

And part of the reason I let RDM use all 6 elements is because up to this point no one caster job has that particular distinction. If anything the lack of the elemental wheel would make something with access to all 6 not as "mandatory" as WAR or SCH. The only other class with such potential for this is Spell Fencer. Plus, this way it can also take from Both BLM and WHM in case SE decides to go "no healing for melee", something we have a precedence for now (MCH). With that said, I'll consider locking the spells behind the "Magic" buffs and changing them accordingly.

Assuming you were to cut it down to Inferno/Cocytus/Levin:

Inferno: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals fire aspected damage with a potency of 100 to target and nearby enemies.
--Decaying Magic - Reduces target's damage resistance by 10% for 10s.
--Charged Magic - Deals fire aspected damage with a potency of 280.

Cocytus: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals ice aspected damage with a potency of 30 to target and nearby enemies. Additional effect: Slow for 15s.
--Decaying Magic - Binds target in place for 10s. Damage taken breaks the effect.
--Charged Magic - Afflicts target with Deep Freeze, preventing them from moving or acting for 20s. Should the frozen target receive damage from any source, target takes 10% additional damage from that attack and cancels the Deep Freeze effect.

Levin: Requires Radial Magic, Decaying Magic or Charged Magic
--Radial Magic - Deals lightning aspected damage with a potency of 30 to target and nearby enemies. Additional effect: Lightning damage over time with a potency of 30 for 18s.
--Decaying Magic - Deals lightning aspected damage with a potency of 50. Additional effect: Stun for 5s.
--Charged Magic - Afflicts target with Seizure, causing them to take damage every time they perform an action (auto-attacks and special attacks) for 12s.

Interesting ideas.

Name change only, effect is fine: Energy drain >>> Spirits Within

Much like Phalanx (only in 1.0 but still), Spirits Within is already taken.

[AutumnsHollow]

That was a fun read! It was very thought out, and I can see you put quite a bit of effort into it. It coincides with my idea that red mage should either be a melee bard, or a melee mage.

I think making groundshaker the strongest attack combined with a stun isn't a good idea. For raids things might be wanna be stunned in a controlled fashion like the heart in a7s, where you'd want tanks to stun the heart first since they're stuns are naturally longer. I also feel like Cocytus is really underwhleming.

Perhaps something akin to tornado kick could be added as a form of an ultimate attack before phase changes? Except for punishment you'd get a debuff that wouldn't allow you to get stacks if you used it wrong. Maybe a really strong melee stab, or a spell that combined all your spells into one could be the animation.

Regardless though nice job!

[Eloah]

The concept you presented isn't a bad one, but the idea isn't as fleshed out as others have indicated. Traits are missing, which is a big part of what grants each job its individuality, or homogenization, lol? But also, at what level would you expect to get each ability, so that a new player is able to play both efficiently and learn about the job as it grows. Another thing, is there resources are mapped out, which is usually done with the traits, how many aethercharges can they hold on to, and do they expire like the aethertrails of summoner or remain like the aetherflow stacks of arcanist. Also, some of your skills seem to have descriptions that make it seem like you can spam them, when you said they have a 10 second CD, which makes them unspamable, and as someone mentioned before having abilities that cost MP and a "stack" doesn't make a lot of sense. I think if you organized the abilities into a leveling format, it might help you decide how you'd use each skill. While most jobs have that one skill that most everyone never uses, you want to try and make sure that each skill is viable in some way. Also don't be afraid to mix and match several of the already existing "systems" the other jobs have to create a brand new one, you're already doing something similar with the aethercharges: Mudras from Ninja, Aetherflow/trails from SCH/SMN, Stacks for Warrior, Dual buffs for DRK, "casting" buff for MCH/BRD, Flow Cycle for BLM, freefrom style/buffs of Monk. What I would recommend is using a combination of the BLM and Monks styles, the abilities are all free form and cycle into one another, Physical moves depend on your stance (like a fencing stance) and magical moves depend on the next element in the cycle, though it may not look like it each element connects to two others one aligned to their form, Astral or Umbral, and one of the opposite form. Spells going the same direction can have a potency increase, but spells going the opposite can cause an effect, like a bind, or heavy. Then what could be done is having the player swap between physical and magical by building up stacks to increase their damage and then expending those stacks on some of the abilities you've mentioned, but you'd have to add physical abilities as well. this way the RDM is always focused on magical and physical offense. I can give you an example after I review what you've written more thoroughly.

Update: I made a mistake when I said that each element connects to 2 others, one astral one umbral, they all cycle together, but there are also 2 triangles that connect certain elements to one another. as depicted in this picture. that's the connection I meant.

[Morningstar1337]

snip

I'll see what I can do about organizing them in a Leveling format and adding traits

[Eloah]

I found this thread that had a similar idea for a Red Mage, that I helped the guy iron out his idea. Now that you have some more info added to your initial post I can it out for you as well. But the idea is still yours, though i will take partial credit for the elemental idea, I had that for a while, lol. I'll update this post as soon as I can.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...pt%21%29/page2

here it is, hope its okay for your needs

Fencing Stances

The strength of a Red Mages physical attacks rely on how they can effetlessly transition from one stance to another, to build up their magical energies. They start out in Garde Stance and continue into Prets and Allez to finish their assault. Upon completing a move in Allez stance they gain a Mana Charge stack increasing their magical attack by a percentage depending on the stack amount, 1-10%, 2-20%, 3-30%. Stacks last for 60 Seconds

Conquest and Submission

Withing the Creation of the Elements, there lies the Pyramids of Conquest and Submission. By using the elements in this way Red mages are able to inflict a myriad of status ailments on their opponents. For each element use in either a Conquest or a Submission manor, Red Mages gain a Forte Charge stack, increasing their physical attack by a percentage depending on the stack amount, 1-6%, 2-12%, 3-18%, 4-24%, 5-30%. Stacks last for 60 seconds

The idea is to build up to one full stack and use it up while building up the other for instance. For Instance, you start out using your physical attacks to build up Mana Charges. Once you reach 3 stacks, you switch to using your magic attacks, and use them and build up Forte stacks as well until the 60 seconds is up, then you go back to physical attacks and continue as such. It's similar to transitioning between Astral Fire and Umbral Ice but is a bit more forgiving, in that both stacks can be up at the same time.

I'll add more a bit later, I have to sleep, T.T

[Morningstar1337]

snip

Okay, I added something based on the Cycles in the form of Buffs. Though I'm still considering retooling the magic side of the kit my gating the skills behind the "Magic" buffs as Naelin suggested and going a little in depth on the relation of the buffs, spells and cycles, I have now done the former.

And regarding the Aethercharges (since I do plan on retaining that aspect) they do not Expire. With the retool, I might have to reconsider Gather's effect

BTW For reference here is the old the old text:

Magic: How it works if that the Magic has a Basic form but can be augmented by certain Buffs, with “Magic” in the title. Using Magic requires an Aethercharge (Save Restore which uses them all) with the enhancements adding to the cost (an AoE Storm for example needs 2 Charges). Since XIV likes to keep its skills exclusive to the classes outside of cross classing this RDM will be using similarly themed spells, having 6 spells (one for each element) and 2 curative spells.

All spells here share a cooldown, with the duration of the coolown being based on the spell used. An offensive spell will make the cooldown 10 seconds while a more restorative one will cause it be be 60 instead. All Spells are oGCD ranged abilities with MP costs scaling by level and the buff. The two traits make it similar to Empyrean Arrow. A player can have up to 5 Aethercharges at a time unless they use a certain ability. Crossclass Skills will not not take Aethercharges or “Magic” Buffs.

• Inferno: 100 potency Fire Attack. AoE.
  
• Cocytus: 240 potency Ice Attack. Binds target with a 5% chance of Deep Freeze on Trash (2 seconds)
• Storm: 190 potency Wind attack, applies Magic Resistance down on the Target, Effect doesn't stack with Foe’s Requiem or Promoted Bishops.
• Levinchain: 60 potency Lightning attack. Applies a DoT to the target for 18 seconds (DoT potency: 60)
• Hydrosphere: 190 potency Water Attack. Silences target for 10 seconds
• Groundshaker: 190 potency Earth Attack. Stuns target for 4 seconds
• Restore: Curing Magic. Takes all Aethercharges and restores health, Potency depends on the Amount of Aethercharges used. (100 potency per Aethercharge)
• Banepurge: A removal of 1 Debuff.

The Buffs: As mentioned before, these buffs augment the Magic spells, but they take up a certain amount of Aethercharges. Changing the spell into something else or in certain cases buffing their own attributes, They are applied by combo finishers and are overwritten by subsequent combos.

• Radial Magic: Turns the Spell into an AoE but halves the potency form the spell. Inferno is unaffected by potency loss and gains an additional 5 yalms, Restore’s potency is reduced to a quarter instead of half. Uses 1 Aethercharge
• Decaying Magic: Converts the damage of an offensive spell into a DoT of the respective element (Burns, Dropsy, Frostbite, Electrocution, Sludge and Windburn) Uses 1 Aethercharge. DoT duration is 30 seconds and potency is 70. All other effects are applied, including Levinchain’s own DoT.
• Charged Magic: Removes all Aethercharges. Adds 40 potency to the spell per used Aethercharge but removes all effects. Inferno’s potency decreases by 10% on 2nd mob, 20% on third and so on until it's at half strength.
• Resourceful Magic: Applies a debuff to the target that grants those that attack it 50 TP per hit. Uses 3 Aethercharges

In addition, there are two additional Buffs that boost Speed

• Conquest: A buff that activates when the RDM uses certain spells in a certain cycle. in this case being Groundshaker>Levinchain>Hydrosphere, Hydrosphere>Groundshaker>Levinchain or Levinchain>Hydrosphere>Groundshaker. The Buff increases the Skill Speed of the player and nearby allies. Unlike the "Magic" Buffs, these only last 30 seconds
• Submission: A buff that activates when the RDM uses certain spells in a certain cycle. in this case being Inferno>Cocytus>Storm, Storm>Inferno>Cocytus or Cocytus>Storm>Inferno. The Spell Speed counterpart of Conquest. Also lasts 30 seconds

Now I am considering divorcing the CC effects from the spells so that I can focus on building up the connection in the cycles without running into problems like an Early stun or Bind happening for the Conquest/Submission buffs. Thoughts?

[ADVSS]

is it really that hard. to implement a caster at range that also deals melee? sure id ignore the cleric stance skill by going cnj instead of acn, def. but really isnt the optimal rotation here to do melee for mp restore and set up for ranged burst then switch after burnout? Why complicate it with this skill uses 2 stacks this one uses three? im not a rocket scientest but i see the concepts. youre looking at wrath stacks and aetherdam stacks what I suggest to keep it simpler, thats whats more realistically to happen but thats my opinion. personally i can learn and adapt regardless but seeing how wrath and "technically independant" dark arts is. and that neither smn nor sch got increase in aetherstacks i just dont feel like costing 1/56 stacks will realistically be a thing