Thoughts for a bard song

[Risvertasashi]

Dusted off my BRD today, and Foe's Requiem got me thinking...

What if there was a sort of inverse song-- a song that, for party members in range, increases healing received (perhaps by 10 or 15%)?

I think I like this better than directly healing since, as with Foe's and spellcasters, it increases the power of others in the party which seems to fit with the theme of Bard.

Thoughts?
Other ideas for songs?

[SaitoHikari]

There'd be even less reason to take a Monk then (Mantra).

Personally I'd like to see another debuff song, but I can't think of one that wouldn't throw off the balance with Machinists completely. Shame on SE for creating another class that is functionally similar to Bard in terms of support. :/

[Underdog2204]

There'd be even less reason to take a Monk then (Mantra).

Personally I'd like to see another debuff song, but I can't think of one that wouldn't throw off the balance with Machinists completely. Shame on SE for creating another class that is functionally similar to Bard in terms of support. :/

This is the problem we have SE totally messed up with MCH/BRD. Ok fine maybe not totally as they work, but they are now stuck in a situation it would be incredibly difficult to get them out of. Give BRD a song that increases healing? Well MCH needs to get that too (or something similar) otherwise it'll be left out, repeat this add infititum.

The situtation isn't a good one for both jobs.

[SaitoHikari]

This is the problem we have SE totally messed up with MCH/BRD. Ok fine maybe not totally as they work, but they are now stuck in a situation it would be incredibly difficult to get them out of. Give BRD a song that increases healing? Well MCH needs to get that too (or something similar) otherwise it'll be left out, repeat this add infititum.

The situtation isn't a good one for both jobs.

I just want to understand why the devs thought it was a good idea to create a class specifically designed to compete with BRD, even down to using the exact same party mechanics (just done in a different way). I mean I'm sure they wanted to stomp the idea that a Bard may be seen as mandatory in every party (and that was probably the case throughout 2.x, but I wasn't around then). But I've never seen a game successfully address that issue by releasing a new class that didn't horribly backfire in the end, and those were classes that had far less similarities compared to BRD and MCH.

It's also for that reason that I'm indifferent on the idea of any new jobs being added to this game. New jobs shouldn't be released for the sake of having new jobs if we're going to end up with this sort of situation again. Plenty of games have been ruined balance-wise in the end for the sake of meeting a 'new class release quota', which clearly took up valuable development resources as well.

I've played some games that did get around such things by retooling existing classes instead, even though it ran the risk of alienating existing players of that class (although it can't be as awkward as the Bard transition into Wanderer's Minuet).

[Yawnie]

I always kinda wish they would give the bard a song that would rez a singe party member, I dunno it's just something I imagined a bard would do what with the whole supporting songs theme it has going for it.

Maybe you'd need to have full MP to use it and when you do it completely drains it all. Add a long CD to it so it wouldn't be completely broken either. Just a fun little thought I always have

[Underdog2204]

Snip

Good point, this game has it worse though as everyone is expecting FFXI classes for no other reason than "FFXI had them". It's like a checklist they are going through and ticking off as they go along. When the inevitable release happens I can be sure there is going to be massive dissapointment.

I've been for removing regen as support since 2.0 it's counter-intuitive to has someone manage resources when that can easily be done by the individual player, it would open up the possibility for more varied support options... Well I supposed it would if CC was a thing but again unfortunatly it isn't which makes alot of my MCH toolset redundant anyway (can't even heavy trash in the latest content).

It's pretty disheartening to say the least, I enjoy the game but this is my main gripe (for every job role) and it's a pretty big one to have.

[Alistaire]

This is the problem we have SE totally messed up with MCH/BRD. Ok fine maybe not totally as they work, but they are now stuck in a situation it would be incredibly difficult to get them out of. Give BRD a song that increases healing? Well MCH needs to get that too (or something similar) otherwise it'll be left out, repeat this add infititum.

The situtation isn't a good one for both jobs.

It's not a problem though. This is just a silly idea thread. Obviously if he meant for a new thing to be implemented, you wouldn't just suggest 1 job get a new thing unless it needed it for balance reasons. Clearly the next time BRD will actually get a new song is when there's a new level cap, and then it'd be easily balanced between them and MCH with whatever they get.

[FeliAiko]

There'd be even less reason to take a Monk then (Mantra).

You'd still want to take a MNK. The combination of Mantra plus this BRD idea would be strong as hell alone, before you throw in SCH and Eos abilities.

Personally I'd like to see another debuff song, but I can't think of one that wouldn't throw off the balance with Machinists completely. Shame on SE for creating another class that is functionally similar to Bard in terms of support. :/

Only real similarity support wise is the MP/TP regen. MCHs can boost physical DPS (including their own) and magic users (BRD can only do the latter), have a Silence and Stun (BRD only has the former), a Bind and Slow (again, BRD only has the former), and can mitigate physical and magic damage (BRD can do neither). The only things BRD can do that MCH can't is preemptively remove a debuff before it occurs, and aid in healer DPS via Rain of Death (but healers meld to meet acc caps anyway, so this one doesn't really count).

One idea I had was for BRDs to get a counter part to Dismantle/Rend Mind, but instead of applying a debuff to a target you instead apply a buff to the party that reduces incoming damage by x%. Unlike MCHs, which is based on whether the damage is physical/magical, BRDs version would be based on the potency of the incoming damage, so would operate similar to AST's Disable.

[SaitoHikari]

You'd still want to take a MNK. The combination of Mantra plus this BRD idea would be strong as hell alone, before you throw in SCH and Eos abilities.

That's assuming the devs decide they want to have both stack, which given history, won't happen. So either we get a useless new song, or the only support MNK has becomes slightly less important.

Although if both are used separately, then maybe...

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I want a song that buffs the party by allowing DoT effects inflicted against enemies to last +10 seconds. That'd be a sight to behold, though deliberately benefiting some classes more than others. Hmm, but I guess that would make Scholars pull ahead of the other two healers even moreso than they already do.

Maybe an ability cooldown reduction song. Something to use during phase transitions if the others aren't hurting on MP/TP, I guess.

[FeliAiko]

That's assuming the devs decide they want to have both stack, which given history, won't happen. So either we get a useless new song, or the only support MNK has becomes slightly less important.

Although if both are used separately, then maybe...

In what scenario has direct buffs to the party not been able to be stacked? Moves like Dragon Kick/Delirium and Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge operate as debuffs to the target (thus indirect buffs to the raid), which is why they overwrite each other. Meanwhile, if a BRD has Ballad/Paeon up and an AST uses an AOE Ewer/Spire, those effects will stack because they are direct buffs to the party. The OP's suggestion would pretty much be the BRD equivalent to moves like Fey Illumination and Mantra, moves which can both be up at the same time.