Are we as players afraid of a challenge?

[odintius]

I would like this but with how many different type of gamers playing now it's why we have the current system in place they need to keep it simple and non complex or players can't handle it well NA/EU players at the very least. I'd like it if it was an option though before you login chose between normal current world we have and open world option it be one big dynamis type world won't happen but dammit I can dream. /shrug

[Zaresin]

Most American players do not like challenge, grind, or time walls. Not like they used too. Go to any forums of any MMO style game out currently that is made outside the US. You will see numerous posts whining about grind, time, or things just being "too hard". It's pathetic really but I'm attributing it to the mind set of people these days. Instant gratification. The problem with instant gratification is once those players get everything they want, they jump ship till the next expansion.

When someone has difficulty or a time consuming task, players will repeat that task till it is masterede or they will do it once then avoid like the plague, then complain on the forums about the grind not being fun. American players (and EU players to some extent) are not like Korean or Japanese players who enjoy grind/difficulty. These players are trained from a young age to deal with difficult/time consuming tasks. Look at where they rank in education, this is their culture. America does not have that culture mindset. It's one reason they tend to be much friendlier to new or inexperienced players. They are used to difficult things and helping someone else out helps them out. In America we tend to be only out for ourselves. We can see this when a group fails as we start pointing fingers rathe than failing as a group.

[Mugiawara]

Most American players do not like challenge, grind, or time walls. Not like they used too. Go to any forums of any MMO style game out currently that is made outside the US. You will see numerous posts whining about grind, time, or things just being "too hard". It's pathetic really but I'm attributing it to the mind set of people these days. Instant gratification. The problem with instant gratification is once those players get everything they want, they jump ship till the next expansion.

When someone has difficulty or a time consuming task, players will repeat that task till it is masterede or they will do it once then avoid like the plague, then complain on the forums about the grind not being fun. American players (and EU players to some extent) are not like Korean or Japanese players who enjoy grind/difficulty. These players are trained from a young age to deal with difficult/time consuming tasks. Look at where they rank in education, this is their culture. America does not have that culture mindset. It's one reason they tend to be much friendlier to new or inexperienced players. They are used to difficult things and helping someone else out helps them out. In America we tend to be only out for ourselves. We can see this when a group fails as we start pointing fingers rathe than failing as a group.

Wow what a post.
Buzz off with that crap, it's not only them.

[LalafellDown]

Most American players do not like challenge, grind, or time walls. Not like they used too. Go to any forums of any MMO style game out currently that is made outside the US. You will see numerous posts whining about grind, time, or things just being "too hard". It's pathetic really but I'm attributing it to the mind set of people these days. Instant gratification. The problem with instant gratification is once those players get everything they want, they jump ship till the next expansion.

Now by "American" are you talking about the Russian Americans or the Mexican Americans or the European Americans or Asian Americans? Brah if you have something against me because I'm Russian tell me. I hate long boring grinds.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Most American players do not like challenge, grind, or time walls. Not like they used too. Go to any forums of any MMO style game out currently that is made outside the US. You will see numerous posts whining about grind, time, or things just being "too hard". It's pathetic really but I'm attributing it to the mind set of people these days. Instant gratification. The problem with instant gratification is once those players get everything they want, they jump ship till the next expansion.

When someone has difficulty or a time consuming task, players will repeat that task till it is masterede or they will do it once then avoid like the plague, then complain on the forums about the grind not being fun. American players (and EU players to some extent) are not like Korean or Japanese players who enjoy grind/difficulty. These players are trained from a young age to deal with difficult/time consuming tasks. Look at where they rank in education, this is their culture. America does not have that culture mindset. It's one reason they tend to be much friendlier to new or inexperienced players. They are used to difficult things and helping someone else out helps them out. In America we tend to be only out for ourselves. We can see this when a group fails as we start pointing fingers rathe than failing as a group.

No, people want something fun to do. Having a bunch of trash mobs thoroughly annihilate you isn't challenging, it's tedious. Dark Souls or Bloodborne are challenging due to smart A.I and a wide arrive of unpredictability mixed alongside punishing you for mistakes. The whole game is designed from the ground up to teach you how to overcome these challenges. Scaling up numbers to make mobs hit like freight trains is the lazy alternative. We're not being offered anything of substance, just a wall. It's the old school 90s method when game development wasn't robust enough for complex A.I. Compare Dynasty Warriors on its highest difficulty setting to the aforementioned Bloodborne. You'll see how very hollow the former feels because all you get are enemies who deal massive damage and have triple their HP. Another example is Mass Effect. The first game is the only one I never bother to play on Insanity anymore. The enemies aren't smarter, they merely turn into damage sponges I have to slog through. So what would have taken me ten minutes or so to blow through now takes twenty or more.

I, personally, have no qualms with a grind. I do, however, dislike content designed with the sole intent of wasting my time. That's why I detest the Company of Heroes questline in ARR. It's not interesting, not challenging and takes over two damn hours while skipping every bit of dialogue. Coincidentally, while the Anima grind is a tad annoying, I don't mind it near as much because it's an easy grind I don't have to do all at once. I do some beast tribes and forget it even exists.

[Zaresin]

What is worth while depends on opinion and varies person to person as this topic shows very well. Some want challenge. Others want something casual that they don't feel a need to be the best in something or work for. The latter is becoming more common place due to player mindset and that mindset is regionalized. Look at KTera vs Tera in the US/EU, BNS in Korea/Jpn/china vs US/EU. The games difficulty/content is tweaked based on the projected audience. Why is it things are always dumbed down for the US?

Heck look at all the "We want compensation" posts when something goes down on a F2P game. It goes back to that instant gratification mind set. Until that goes away, the difficulty will always be artificial. While this game is a sub style game, the concept applies as well.

[Skivvy]

Let's kill this nonsense trope right here. North American players have never minded a challenge as long as the rewards were commensurate with that challenge. Who wanted to fight Kirin knowing that it could just drop an Earth crystal? That made people feel like suckers in XI. Anyone honest with themselves would question a challenge's worth if it offered little reward for much risk. That's why Abyssea did so well in XI and why much of XIV's content is doing well.

Grinds are only as tolerable as the end reward allows.

Abyssea was absolutely not a smash hit for XI, and has been blamed for ruining XI as it had been known. This caused a good amount of people to leave the game and spawned an insane number of requests for SE to roll back to "pre-abyssea" days.

[Hayward]

Abyssea was absolutely not a smash hit for XI, and has been blamed for ruining XI as it had been known. This caused a good amount of people to leave the game and spawned an insane number of requests for SE to roll back to "pre-abyssea" days.

I'd say Voidwatch had more to do with that than Abyssea. Then again, the hardcore cliques who had their apple carts overturned upon Abyssea's release would be expected to make this argument.

[Skivvy]

I'd say Voidwatch had more to do with that than Abyssea. Then again, the hardcore cliques who had their apple carts overturned upon Abyssea's release would be expected to make this argument.

It was not only the "hardcore cliques" who were upset. Stop making stuff up.

[bass9020]

Maybe the next FF MMO will be what most of us want, maybe SE will actually listen to us and make a

• seamless open world(its vey possible don't say its not)

• tough open world mobs that use unique skills

• no aoe markers, actual and useful CC abilities/spells

• MORE GRAPHICAL OPTIONS

• open world dungeons(but use the old 1.0 behest option so it acts like an instance but everyone could benefit)

• horizontal progression but with an emphasis on the character/class/job(this way gear is cycled out easier)

• less focus on trinity system?(this one is hard for me because I enjoy have specific roles in content but then sometimes its boring to have a static non predictable system)

• NM using a interesting system where they are summoned by parties

• ELEMENTAL WHEEL

• crafting that isn't just about glamours

• more weighty character animations and moving animations(start up and stop, turning left and right(design it for outside combat only))

• NO FLYING

• boat/airships that have actual travel times(designed to not have to wait for them to get back though since thats just annoying)

• limited fast travel(make breeding mounts a thing and have abilities/traits to help with travel(a game I'm playing right now does this))

• side quests that are more than just kill trash.

Not everyone enjoys a snooze fest and people are pretty selfish if they can't allow the game to have interesting things that aren't all instance cross server crap. Yes I know I made this list for the next FFMMO but maybe one day we will see some of this stuff in XIV and more people will finally be happier with the game. You can have challenge without making things so hard people can't do anything, challenge isn't always just for battles.