Are we as players afraid of a challenge?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

That sounds more annoying than scary. Something straight out of the Palace of the Dead from the sounds of it.

[Sandpark]

Hence the term: Trash mobs.

Most monsters have a mechanic - typically a cone that's easy to dodge, bats have lifesteal, some others poison procs or a gaze attack (Serpents in Quarn HM come to mind) maybe a class ability for humanoid NPCs etc - it becomes most obvious in palace of the dead, because you fight through just about every trash there is. IIRC, Ninki Nankas don't aggro if you walk rather than run either (At least in Hullbreaker they don't). Final Sting is one of the most well known trash abilities by far I wager. Drakes in southern Thanalan also employ a fire shield buff that hurts attackers much akin to a counterstance. Ironically especially in low level areas, you can also find monsters "linked" - typically Mandragora.

Magitek Colossi have overdrive, cleave, exhaust and a targeted AoE. Seems like a bunch, but are they really challenging for that? Toads have Vasoconstrictor and Labored Leap plus Tongue, but does that make them much of a threat? Succubi have Fire II and Dark Mist, some also have Sweet Steel (Haukke HM and up). I could go on, but...you know. I don't feel mobs actually lack mechanics/abilities, but the fact that we can move freely to easily avoid them, rather than being locked in place with every action skill, makes them seem a lot less threatening - plus the fact that we can clearly see where the attack goes in the first place. There's also stuns and other CC freely available to trivialize them further. And in group dungeons, healers are OP anyhow, so if it doesn't kill instantly, it can often be ignored.

The other criticism I feel is actually valid is that many of the abilities of monsters do, in fact, not feel very organic. They have a generic casting animation and things happen - All of the Succubi preparation/casting animations are one and the same, rather than being unique and fitting for each ability. Similar applies to other monsters - a Jackal using Sanguite Bite looks like he's casting Stone, rather than preparing to jump at your throat (And Foul Bite doesn't seem to have any animation at all). Same goes for Final Sting and many, many other abilities. Even if the substance remains unchanged, it makes monsters feel less lively.

Just because something is trash mob doesn't mean it should be braindead.

They do have some in fight mechanics. The fact you can dodge them, means you can theoretically not get hurt at all in an encounter or heal through it easy. Dark Souls handles this by limiting healing resources. Which is not possible here since this is a multiplayer game. So the best thing SE could do is make the hits when they actually hit you, sting like hell without one shotting. The stuns and CC are fine as long as the enemy can do the same thing to you. The tables are more even when an enemy can hurt you just as bad. The common mmo thing to make fights last longer is mount HP galore onto enemies. But that just becomes tedious if smart thought can't turn for the good or bad in an instant.

I don't necessarily ask for difficulty, because that is subjective to each player. Every encounter should require thought though or this might as well be a hack n slash game. The AI they stripped from aggro mechanics in the open world removes the thought. And that is why it should come back.

[Nuna]

Lmao. Someone wants to remove flying. Do you really think making travel time longer is challenging?

[Shurrikhan]

Lmao. Someone wants to remove flying. Do you really think making travel time longer is challenging?

By itself, no. But since having flight does remove all topographical complexity of a map, and since there isn't presently any airborne complexity to replace that with...

(I guess maybe in the Sea of Clouds you can trim a few seconds' travel time by remembering which island your target area is hidden behind and/or cutting between them at a consistent angle of ascent or decent, but that's all the complexity of taking the shortest path from A to B. There are no flying enemies, nothing to accelerate travel, nor any appreciable flight physics to make it more exciting.)

There's plenty that can be made to give flight challenges of its own, and in some cases even make the ground safer and slower while the skies are riskier but more rewarding. Just as you can do with ground mounts vs. going on foot if you had mount health, turning speed, morale, etc. It's just that the game is entirely bare-bones in those areas.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

The five headed dragon in the World of Darkness kind of fits the bill of a multi-targeted foe, though it only happens once it starts building up its insta wipe attack.

[Shurrikhan]

The five headed dragon in the World of Darkness kind of fits the bill of a multi-targeted foe, though it only happens once it starts building up its insta wipe attack.

I was thinking more along the lines of areas that are tactically, rather than just reactively, targetable. Taking on a large Garlean mech, you can take out its knees, apply knockbacks to its feet mid-step, take out its sensors (elevation breaks or multipliers meaning this is best done from atop the nearby towers, which can be taken out by the mech), take out its arms, its main cannon, and so forth. There may end up being a conventional order to it, but each variation in composition, prior items (picked up sapper satchels, etc., placed in key items specific to the instance and bindable to the bar), environmental weapons remaining (cannons saved), preparative work (supporting airships taken down or hyjacked?) can really play into different priorities or preference, and each start to a kill order gives multiple consequent follow-ups. Just another way to throw in some interesting complexities... while also not striking thin air 30 ft below the belly of the beast you're trying to punch.

[Sandpark]

I was thinking more along the lines of areas that are tactically, rather than just reactively, targetable. Taking on a large Garlean mech, you can take out its knees, apply knockbacks to its feet mid-step, take out its sensors (elevation breaks or multipliers meaning this is best done from atop the nearby towers, which can be taken out by the mech), take out its arms, its main cannon, and so forth. There may end up being a conventional order to it, but each variation in composition, prior items (picked up sapper satchels, etc., placed in key items specific to the instance and bindable to the bar), environmental weapons remaining (cannons saved), preparative work (supporting airships taken down or hyjacked?) can really play into different priorities or preference, and each start to a kill order gives multiple consequent follow-ups. Just another way to throw in some interesting complexities... while also not striking thin air 30 ft below the belly of the beast you're trying to punch.

Or you could even.

Have a power control mechanic on it. You over-damage the legs and instead of it getting knockback it could counter with a rockets or elements, if you damage it just enough it will get the knockback effect. Permanence and conventional order would make it a pre-scripted dance. And the legs gain repairs periodically.

You can jam it's cannon by applying heat to it. Overheat it and the mech gets pulse bombs AoE which are even worse than the cannons. Damage it just enough and the cannons potency gets severely hampered. And the cannons get repaired periodically.

Damage it's instrument panels and the mech loses mobillity, over damage it and the mech gains homing skills or flies in the air mostly invulnerable. And the instrument panels get periodically repaired.

The one area that damage if permanent has high defense and HP in so that if you try to take it down ignoring side mechanics, it is next to impossible or takes so much longer it is less efficient.

[TAS]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; add more variety to the content out side of just spam farming the same thing over and over. Truthfully you really only need to run a raid, dungeon, trial, FATE ( the list goes on) once. Having to spam the same piece of content over and over again gets really old really fast. And as of late it feels like with every patch, they keep bringing in new things versus developing and enhancing on what they already have.

I really feel like the "inclusive" approach they've been taking is starting to hurt the game a bit. Most of what we get in terms of content has been centered on being new player friendly and everybody can participate, and the DEVs seem to have forgotten that they have people who have been playing this game for 3-5 years now. Deep Dungeon for example: Great way to enroll new players, it's a new way to level up, and all the floors are never the same. Great! It would have been better if it was something that came out at ARR Launch, because, as a player that has a preferred job that he already has maxed; Going into new content and having to start at level one is a turn off. Why would I want to repeat that grind again, especially if I have no interest in leveling up another job?

I understand the need and desire to attract new players, and making them feel included. I, as an ongoing player, want to enjoy this game just as much as a new comer, but having to spam a weeks worth of new content for a period of three months, be it for gear, whatever, just isn't enough.

[Teraluna]

I'm waiting for the further PotD floors, as Yoshi P has stated the escalating difficulty will mean not everyone will be able to get to floor 200.

And I'm perfectly fine with that, even if I end up someway short of the final floor. If that's as far as I can go, whilst other players finish several levels higher, then good for them and I'd give them a well done.

Just hoping it's not too long before we get these.

[Tolmos]

Remember also that the challenge mechanics are rather limited in what they can be by virtue of the game medium we are playing. Square has to take into account people with pings of 100+, especially in light of the recent Level3 lag issues that players in the US Southeast have been experiencing as of late. If the mechanics are too unforgiving, or too fast paced, some players may not even see the mechanic happen until it has already gone off.

And sure, you could say "well then they shouldn't be playing", but the likelihood of Square cutting out tens of thousands of paying customers so the rest can experience more of a challenge in their gameplay is pretty small, IMO.