Question to Dark knights from a WHM

[Seku]

Holy shouldn't really effect a DRK, more so if their doing gate to gate pulls and if the DPS are pulling their weight. With 3 other methods to gain MP outside of blood price, Holy shouldn't really be getting in the way of anything.

Only time I could see it going south is if they spam DA Abyssal Drain, which they shouldn't be because the mobs are stunned. But some players.

[gehrtalert]

As a white Mage, I try to watch for blood price when it's up and not to Holy spam. I can always throw some DoTs out or a couple Stoneskins or heal. I figured that Blood Price gets used for a reason and I try not to get in the way of that. If a DRK runs out of mana, then they can't keep agro, especially if I'm Holy-bombing a trash pack.

[Freyyy]

As a white Mage, I try to watch for blood price when it's up and not to Holy spam. I can always throw some DoTs out or a couple Stoneskins or heal. I figured that Blood Price gets used for a reason and I try not to get in the way of that. If a DRK runs out of mana, then they can't keep agro, especially if I'm Holy-bombing a trash pack.

If a DRK runs out of MP it's his fault, not yours. And if his MP is empty he most likely spammed the shit out of AD already and you won't take aggro with your Holy-bombing. And even then, the stun from Holy-bombing can only stun for what, 6sec maybe ? Before being completely resisted, while BP lasts 15sec.

[gehrtalert]

If a DRK runs out of MP it's his fault, not yours.

If my party dies, it's my fault. That's the way I see it. I can wait 10 seconds to let a DRK Regen some mana.

I think it's more of a common courtesy kind of thing for me. I don't want a tank running off with a pack while I'm Holying so I'm not going to stop mobs from recharging your mana. I imagine you use Blood Price to Regen mana since it's the only use for the skill.

[Freyyy]

If my party dies, it's my fault. That's the way I see it. I can wait 10 seconds to let a DRK Regen some mana.

I think it's more of a common courtesy kind of thing for me. I don't want a tank running off with a pack while I'm Holying so I'm not going to stop mobs from recharging your mana. I imagine you use Blood Price to Regen mana since it's the only use for the skill.

Yes it is its only use but it's not the only way to regen MP, and it's OUR duty to manage when to use said skills, and you as a WHM shouldn't have to adapt to this for holybombing. You're speaking to a DRK main here
Plus I'd like to add that if the whole party dies because the DRK lacked MP because of some seconds of wasted Blood Price (not even the full CD as I said), not holybombing wouldn't have changed anything. It's just a terribad DRK and he would've wiped the group anyway.

[Esp]

Yes it is its only use but it's not the only way to regen MP, and it's OUR duty to manage when to use said skills, and you as a WHM shouldn't have to adapt to this for holybombing. You're speaking to a DRK main here
Plus I'd like to add that if the whole party dies because the DRK lacked MP because of some seconds of wasted Blood Price (not even the full CD as I said), not holybombing wouldn't have changed anything. It's just a terribad DRK and he would've wiped the group anyway.

Another DRK main here, and I agree with Freyyy. When it comes to MP management, leave that to us. If we're foolish enough to run to the next set of mobs with MP out of our safe zone, there is only the DRK to blame, plus ethers are around for a reason. xD

If you know your WHM is going to go Holy crazy, there really isn't much point to be using BP right off the bat, a few unleashes is enough to hold them until the Stun DR kicks in, then they should use it. I've made this mistake lots of times, which I have learned from. ^^

[gehrtalert]

I'll still wait a few ticks before I spam holy stuns on a DRK using blood price. If they have more than half mp, then I won't wait. But if they're using it for the reason of regaining mp, I'll wait until they get some back. I know it's your responsibility to manage your own mp but when I play white Mage, I try to watch for what all of my party is doing. 7 seconds of waitin for blood price isn't going to make or break a run but not waiting is just rude in my opinion. I don't know what you have up on cooldowns, I don't know if you have other means of mp replenishing to use at the moment, so I'm just not going to ruin it's purpose for you.

[SpookyGhost]

Holy + Abyssal Drain spam is higher DPS (and less healing required) than simply Abyssal Drain spam + the extra few you gain from those ticks of Blood Price (since you'll still get plenty of MP from BP, just not the ticks while they're stunned).

However, if your DRK is bad/inexperienced and they're struggling for MP, then it's a good idea to give them some space.

[TaurusGilgamesh]

Just had a run with a DRK who was complaining. In my opinion, there is no reason to tell a WHM to hold back on Holy. I played DRK a lot as well and had not as much problems holding my MP. So if a DRK can't manage that, they need to learn it. DRKs got plenty of ways to do so, even if Holy stuns.

1. Sole Survivor, when a monster is about to die.
2. Syphoon Strike, if enmity is stable.
3. Carve and Spit, without Dark Arts.
4. Turning off Dark Side as necessary to get rid off the drain. It's better to have MP left instead of running out of it.
5. Avoid Dark Arts + Abyssal drain. This Combo is for situations, when the healer can't heal the tank.
6. If enmity is stable, Grit off and Blood Weapon.

Of course, there are situations when a WHM should hold back. But if the DRK is at full MP and complains he values Blood Price too much. Communication is the key. If the DRK runs low on MP he can wait after that pull with Dark Side off, while the WHM can take this break for his MP too.

[Februs]

Yes it is its only use but it's not the only way to regen MP, and it's OUR duty to manage when to use said skills, and you as a WHM shouldn't have to adapt to this for holybombing.

I agree that we do have other ways of genning mp, and it's definitely our job to manage it, but it's not a one way street here. There are other factors than just our ability to use our skills. For one, we're not psychic. If we pop blood price, we're doing it because we're expecting that hp return. Not getting that mp back is not strictly our fault if the Whm decides to start dropping holy bombs.

Further, not all of our mp skills will be available to us at any given time. For example, if the whm is spam casting holy, then they're relying on HoT's to heal. That's fine only if the incoming dmg doesn't outpace the Hot's. If it does, however, then dropping Grit to pop Blood Weapon suddenly isn't an option. The skill level of the whm plays a part in how much freedom we have in that regard, and you can't always assume they'll be totally okay with healing you if you drop your stance for the sake of mp. In the worst case scenario we could just drop Darkside and regen that way, but if we're forced to do that because of careless healing than the whm is actually sabotaging the group.

Optimal party synergy is totally possible with a drk and whm, without the need for excessive compromise by either party, but that's only the case if both parties are actually paying attention to one another. It's true that the ball is mostly in drk's court here, but that doesn't give whms a free pass to simply put on blinders and ignore what's needed of them. If that means delaying their holy spam for a couple of seconds, then its really no skin off their nuts, especially because there is always other things that a whm could be doing. Whenever I heal as whm I never have to ask myself the 'to holy or not to holy' question, because every blood price period is spent prepping for when blood price is down. Is blood price up? great, apply DoT's and prep HoTs. By the time that's done, Blood Price will be over and am fully prepped for a free and clear holy-spam. Rinse. Repeat. And never worry about causing mp issues.