Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[DPZ2]

If you compare FFXIV to FFXI its very much a WoW Clone. WoW might be a bad term but i guess MMORPGs that are similiar to WoW with that simplicity.

Don't you think that this may have more to do with "WoW, at it's worst after 10 years, still has more paying subscribers than any other MMORPG out there". They must be doing something right. I don't buy "Players don't know any better".

I'll work on misconceptions promulgated in your post after the edit.

Weapons: A large number of weapons in WoW can be used by multiple classes. Yeah, it's closed. Big reason for that is raiding -- who want's to raid for 10 weeks so that everyone has a chance at the one specific weapon drop they all can use.

Gears: Gear stats are there to provide some level of variability (read that as RNG) during combat. WoW itself is simplifying stats. Why? In games where PvP is possible (is that even a thing in FFXI?) the idea is that your armor and weapons are not as important as your skill using them. Winning in PvP is less meaningful if your opponent can say "Sure, you won, but only because you had the Flail of +1000 damage".

Magic spells: From what I've seen so far, sure you get lots of things you can use, and no real way to use them short of (creating macros?) to invoke them. All combat is repetitive: swing sword, swing sword, etc. However complicated a game system make make magic/abilities, it still comes down to "what do you use on a regular basis". There are plenty of spells in WoW/FFXIV with no real use other than nostalgia for the days when hunters, for example, had at least 20 buttons they could mash to DPS (instead of 10).

Dungeons: Can't say I've seen the Open World yet in FFXI. I've been outside Bastok, and run into exactly 2 players out there over three days. I suppose all the cool kids hang out in the higher level areas, never to return to the starting areas. In FFXIV I can mix and match with players from level 1 through level 60 in the three major cities and in instances. I can actually SEE what the cool kids are wearing this year, and aspire to be Just Like Them, rather than hope I come across somebody in the Great Outdoors of FFXI.

Gaming Environment: Solo questing and communal instances are the basis for WoW/FFXIV, sure. Community and socialization occur in Free Companies (that you join so you can find people you wind up playing with over and over).

And hey -- maybe I like the story in FFXIV better than Dragon Age, ok?

"Again no one wants FFXI 2.0 but players didnt want FFXIV A WoW Clone Reborn either.
There will always be that one someone that says FFXI is still active why dont you go play that?
My answer that do that is WoW is still active aswell why are you here playing a WoW Clone?"

Hint: Are you so exactly sure that no one wanted some of the amenities provided in WoW when they were designing ARR?

HintHint: Are you so sure that a majority of the player base is solely dedicated to FFXIV, etc? I currently have <rummages around> 7 major MMOs installed on my system. Almost all of them have adopted the WoW control scheme. [Blade and Soul is the current exception.] Their conception of the world, their story themes, their combat systems all take unique approaches.

"People want the good things about FFXI wich made it so great not the bad stuff like waiting 6h in jeuno for group etc."

I see so many posts about "Why can't this game be the game I like better" without referencing the 'bad stuff'. Good on you.

[Cakekizyy]

WoW doesn't limit you to one weapon. FF XIv is only game I know to do that.

[Lexia]

...
Now, if you can survive the first couple of weeks of thinking "why the hell did I buy this game?!", things will start to click and you'll really get the feel of XI. ...

I never really felt that "why I buy this game" with XI cause of the way it played I actually enjoyed it quite a lot it actually felt like you were stepping into a real virtual world. For everything leveling, traveling whether it be on foot, by airship or even teleporting and teleporting was a luxury in XI for those that never played it unlike in XIV that it the basic way of traveling. NPCs kept shop hours and certain mobs only spawned at certain hours like night time mobs only. Think XI also have more coherent storyline, but anyways I know there lot of people that love XIV and hated XI and be like "well go back and play XI it still around" and you know maybe if SE did a dual sub for XI/XIV maybe I would and then play both games depending on what mood I'm in that day. I'm and not saying I hate XIV (as I've been replied to before) and just think it lacking that certain element cause people talk about "oh people just look at XI in nogalistic way" and if they do that mean they enjoyed the time that had with the game and I just don't see myself in couple years or even as of right now (the 3 years been playing) having any type of nogalistic feelings for the time I have spent with XIV.

(just using a quote as reference and not direct reply or opposition)

[Xiomara]

WoW doesn't limit you to one weapon. FF XIv is only game I know to do that.

That's because your class/job in FFXIV is tied to what weapon you're using, where as in WoW you have one class and that's it.

[Skivvy]

I never really felt that "why I buy this game" with XI cause of the way it played I actually enjoyed it quite a lot it actually felt like you were stepping into a real virtual world. For everything leveling, traveling whether it be on foot, by airship or even teleporting and teleporting was a luxury in XI for those that never played it unlike in XIV that it the basic way of traveling. NPCs kept shop hours and certain mobs only spawned at certain hours like night time mobs only. Think XI also have more coherent storyline, but anyways I know there lot of people that love XIV and hated XI and be like "well go back and play XI it still around" and you know maybe if SE did a dual sub for XI/XIV maybe I would and then play both games depending on what mood I'm in that day. I'm and not saying I hate XIV (as I've been replied to before) and just think it lacking that certain element cause people talk about "oh people just look at XI in nogalistic way" and if they do that mean they enjoyed the time that had with the game and I just don't see myself in couple years or even as of right now (the 3 years been playing) having any type of nogalistic feelings for the time I have spent with XIV.

(just using a quote as reference and not direct reply or opposition)

I totally agree When I first started the game back in 2006, I was absolutely hooked and in love really early on, but this was my first MMO and so I had nothing else to compare it to at the time. Now that I'm an ol' seasoned MMO player, I still think it's an amazing game and love it, but it does have a steep learning curve which I think scares people off.

When I came back to the game last year after a 5 year absence, I felt completely lost and was having a hard time remembering how to do anything - but at the time I didn't have a LS to fall back on for help and ask questions, but at least I had a general idea of how to get about, and I knew about the online resources.

I think for new players these days, it can be incredibly difficult to really get into the game if you don't know where to look for help and guidance. Even with that help, it still take some time to get used to the old system compared to modern MMOs where everything is in your face and crystal clear (for the most part).

[Zojha]

WoW/FFXIV = Jobs limited to one sort of weapon type creating a closed envoirment instead of giving an option that one job/class can use different weapon types.

Uhm...it's been a while since I last played WoW, but last I did classes had a variety of weapons they could equip in WoW - Rogues could wield Dual Maces, Swords and Daggers, Warriors Greatswords, Hammers and Axes as well as Dual Wield and the classic sword and board. It came with the fact that classes were not, well...tied to weapons, but rather standalone and not changeable. Most specs still had a meta-weapon (type) simply because it had the best stats (or talent) for the spec.

Similar goes for the WoW stats - I'm currently looking through
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Attributes_(pre-6.0)
and
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Attributes plus http://wow.gamepedia.com/Proc

WoW seems to have...quite a bit more than FFXIV in that regard and I would wager it's actually closer to XI all things considered. But again, I didn't play in a while, hence I need to browse the internet for information.

[Cakekizyy]

That's because your class/job in FFXIV is tied to what weapon you're using, where as in WoW you have one class and that's it.

Aye, was just correcting false information by Fizzle.

[Ibi]

what they added jump to FFXI? , i played it last year and wasnt able to jump!!! there is a free login time now.....just want to see my taru taru jumping around !

They added a /jump command, but it's just an emote. Your character doesn't actually jump.

Those ankle high ledges remain as impassable as ever.

Here are a few examples:

As usual, you're only providing the facets of the truth that suit your arguement.

Weapons:

WoW/FFXIV = Jobs limited to one sort of weapon type creating a closed envoirment instead of giving an option that one job/class can use different weapon types.

FFXI = Almost all jobs could wear different weapons. example Paladins could use swords staffs greatswords daggers axes etc.

Classes in WoW are not limited to one weapon.

Gears:
WoW/FFXIV = very unpersonal gear stats that most jobs shared kinda like how FFXIV is now where you crit and det your life away.

FFXI = Gears had multiple stats and stuff that gave abilities boosts etc like 10% more cure potency -10% damage taken etc.

Plenty of gear in WoW has multiple stats and stuff that gives abilities boosts. Particularly trinkets and tier sets.

Magic spells:
WoW/FFXIV = Some spells are abilities and stuff are extremly a pattern to follow instead of beeing able to break a pattern and still do alot of damage.

FFXI = Most mage jobs have atleast 40+ magic spells. Even if people will complain now and you only use a few of the spells it really doesnt matter the feeling of getting an option to cast something else for once gives satisfaction instead of how black mage on FFXIV for example is just a silly ice and fire mage.. Where is the tornado and quake spells etc?

WoW had, for a long time, multiple ranks of spells and much larger variety. They've consolidated them over time, in part because it was unintuitive and in part because there was no point to having 25 abilities if you only ever used 15 of them.

Dungeons:
WoW/FFXI = Instances/unpersonal DF envoirment.

FFXI = A whole huge map is your instance but other people outside your party can run by you and assist etc.

WoW did not have DF until 2009. FFXI has a massive amount of instanced content (Dynamis prior to the changes, Limbus, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, Einherjar, BCNMs, Assaults, etc).

Gaming Envoirment

WoW/FFXIV = You can afford to not play with anyone until level 60 pretty much due to how the duty finder envoirment allows pretty much makes you a "solo" player because you are just an empy shell on your server because the DF is always there.

FFXI = After level 10 (before abyssea etc) you had to start playing with people and socialize most of the time its people you would wind up playing with over and over creating a very good social vibe maybe its a bit forced for its on own good but if you want to solo things why dont you play Dragons Age or something?

Now you're just being ridiculous. There is nothing stopping you playing almost the entirety of WoW or FFXIV with another person from 1 to their respective level caps. People do it all the time.

There was also nothing stopping you playing FFXI from 1-75 without ever chatting to people in an exp party. I couldn't even begin to count the number of parties where the only things that were said in party chat for several hours would be pulling macros or TP call outs.

There will always be that one someone that says FFXI is still active why dont you go play that?
My answer that do that is WoW is still active aswell why are you here playing a WoW Clone?

FFXI is FFXI. FFXIV, for all its similarities, is not WoW.

I don't think I can state that any simpler.

People want the good things about FFXI wich made it so great not the bad stuff like waiting 6h in jeuno for group etc.

Except that there's absolutely no consensus about what "the good things about FFXI" were.

For every person that says they loved how long it took to achieve anything, because it meant the rewards were more significant, you'll have someone else counter that they hated how long it took to achieve anything. Same for excessive travel times, open world difficulty, horizontal progression, etc.

[Velhart]

Well a motivation to keep the wiki updated isn't exactly a bad thing but yeah they could have done with having more detailed quest descriptions in the quest/mission menus.

It isn't a bad thing either to not tell you exactly where to go and fun to figure it out, but the game a lot of times gave you nothing to work with at the beginning.

[Katchoo]

Forgive me for not remember it exactly. Suffice it to say, it took far longer than necessary JUST to use a chocobo taxi. Before you could even do that rediculous quest, you had to get to Juno first. Which, even then you had to be level 20 to even have a chance to get there, let alone pick up the quest. Let's not get into all the hoops you had to jump through just to get an airship pass.

Okay i'm just being pedantic at this point but i just can't help myself.

First, how is that quest any different from the one in FFXIV? Both quest you need to be level 20 and in fact if anything you could say the FFXIV was worse. You had to grind out 2000 GC seals (until they recently changed it) which lets face it was a pain without a Choco whistle to take you between FATEs and were also seals you would rather be spending on ranking up.

Second, level had nothing to do with getting to Jeuno. Being level 20 hardly made your chances better in fact anybody with half a brain switched to a level 1 character so that if they did die they would not lose exp on their main.

But i agree, everything was a chore and a half ... but that was kind of the point. It was very much of it's time, and the chore was worth it for the immense sense of satisfaction you got from the small victories that built your character ... at least at the time that's how it felt.

These days i would much rather have fast travel and all the other countless comforts a modern MMO provides. Do i look back and reminisce about how wonderful FFXI was? Yes. But do i want all the pain that entailed? No. Lets face it, most people loose their cool if you wipe on a boss in Weeping City, WoD or w/e imagine the rage of having to run by foot half way round the world after a wipe.