Ruin I versus Ruin II

[LaylaTsarra]

i use Ruin II as opposed to Ruin 1 unless I'm in a low level dungeon. I just find I don't have problems with mp and I suppose also I love the ability to move and fight given my main is blm and that requires not moving for the most part. I love my summoner as well and it such a nice change from my main.

[FoxyAreku]

He's not wrong, but his logic is being applied to content where it really doesn't matter.

If you spammed Ruin II and nothing else in say, nidhogg extreme, you may run into MP problems in the long run.

Personally, I never use Ruin II unless I need to force a GCD, move out of an AoE, or if something needs to be blinded (which is rarely ever tbh).

[Garotte14]

This is a good question, but it also has a very easy answer. You just have to ask yourself one question. They are the same potency so what is the benefit of using Ruin II over Ruin I? Well, 2 things. 1) It adds a blind effect. This is only useful depending on the situation. The encounter, party makeup and skill level of your tanks and healers. I wouldn't put too much weight on this. 2) It's instant cast. This allows movement, and the ability to weave oGCDs.

So if you are just standing still spamming your Ruin spell, there is really no reason to use Ruin II. The MP you save affords you more Ruin IIIs, which is far more important.

If the argument is that MP is not an issue in a particular encounter, then you should be using Ruin III. If you need to move, or use an oGCD, Run II your little heart out. But if you are literally just standing there spamming Ruin II, I can see why someone might say something.


Again, there is zero advantage in using Ruin II if you are standing still, using no oGCDs.

[Kosmos992k]

Personally I think that the instant cast and mobility alone is worth the extra MP, but as a tank, the blind status effect seals the deal when choosing between ruin and ruin 2. Ruin 2 all the way in that choice.

[Rennies]

Keep your DoTs up and you're golden, Ruin II is for extra mitigation on the tank (like E4E) and using Fester and other oGCDs.

To any Summoners reading this, please god, do not spam Ruin 1 and then 2 throughout the entire run. You have other skills. I might just have bad luck with DF but I've seen it far too much.

[Chalbee]

Like everything a SMN does, it's situational. If I just need to do something in between cooldowns/refreshing DoTs, I choose Ruin I (or even a non-Dreadwyrm Trance Ruin III depending on my MP situation). If I need to move out of the way of an aoe, or want to throw in some OGCD skills, use II. Another reason not to spam II is the blind debuff has diminishing returns; after a point it's just unnecessarily using the extra MP for no real benefit. As for the run in, run out for Miasma II, unless the party is on the strugglebus DPS wise, I don't really use Miasma II all that much...

[JustPlainLucas]

Like everything a SMN does, it's situational. If I just need to do something in between cooldowns/refreshing DoTs, I choose Ruin I (or even a non-Dreadwyrm Trance Ruin III depending on my MP situation). If I need to move out of the way of an aoe, or want to throw in some OGCD skills, use II. Another reason not to spam II is the blind debuff has diminishing returns; after a point it's just unnecessarily using the extra MP for no real benefit. As for the run in, run out for Miasma II, unless the party is on the strugglebus DPS wise, I don't really use Miasma II all that much...

It helps. I add Miasma II in with the rest of my DoTs before I contagion. If I'm DoTing while chain pulling, then when I hit Contagion and then Bane, the rest of the mobs get a Miasma II without me even casting it again.

[LineageRazor]

It helps. I add Miasma II in with the rest of my DoTs before I contagion. If I'm DoTing while chain pulling, then when I hit Contagion and then Bane, the rest of the mobs get a Miasma II without me even casting it again.

Actually, Miasma II is NOT passed by Bane. It's explicitly written on the power's ability: "Spreads a target's Bio, Bio II, and Miasma to nearby enemies." Fester, too, does not include Miasma II in its potency equation. When I learned these things. Misama II became so much less valuable to me. ;_;

Against a single target, Miasma II is not worth using at all. It does 20 potency plus 10 potency a tic for five tics, for a total of 70 potency. Ruin or Ruin II is a better use of your GCD against a single target, since they do 80 potency. It's decent enough to use against groups, though. Even just three mobs, and Miasma II is more potent than Ruin III.

[JustPlainLucas]

Actually, Miasma II is NOT passed by Bane. It's explicitly written on the power's ability: "Spreads a target's Bio, Bio II, and Miasma to nearby enemies." Fester, too, does not include Miasma II in its potency equation. When I learned these things. Misama II became so much less valuable to me. ;_;

Against a single target, Miasma II is not worth using at all. It does 20 potency plus 10 potency a tic for five tics, for a total of 70 potency. Ruin or Ruin II is a better use of your GCD against a single target, since they do 80 potency. It's decent enough to use against groups, though. Even just three mobs, and Miasma II is more potent than Ruin III.

I guess I never paid attention. I just assumed that since it was extended by Contagion, it would have been passed along in Bane with the rest of the dots.

[Eloah]

It helps. I add Miasma II in with the rest of my DoTs before I contagion. If I'm DoTing while chain pulling, then when I hit Contagion and then Bane, the rest of the mobs get a Miasma II without me even casting it again.

That might be a waste though, because of the deminishing return and potency of the DoTs. If casting each DoT, averaging 2.5 seconds a cast/recast and DoT counter, you have Bio II at 30 secs, then Miasma at 24 and Bio II at 27, then since Bio is instant, if all goes well you'll have Bio II at 26/7, Miasma at 23/4, and Bio at 18. Immediately after that or about a second later you'd use Contagian which would add 15 secs to each DoT, bringing the total to Bio II 41/2, Miasma 38/39, and Bio 33. Then you use Bane which would snapshot those numbers onto the surrounding enemies.

Now if you add Miasma II into there you have to waiy a whole GCD to use the skill bringing the totals down to Bio II 24/25, Miasma 20/21, Bio 15/6, and Miasma II 10 seconds. And Miasma II potency is only like 120 with contagion. The lose of the larger numbers isnt worth it.

Also i think Bane only works on the 3 main DoTs, but I'm on my phone can't check that now.