Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

[AlphaFox]

Just take some existing White and Black Magic spells and add a RDM twist to them but don't redefine them completely.

Kind of how I figured it, let RDM be given a few extra cross slots to pull from Thm and Cnj. Making it a pre req like others of the whole lv 30/15, just in this case lv 30/30. Surely they could allow the skills to then have their own unique effect when classed over to the RDM unless we wanted to just give the skills directly to the RDM as part of normal leveling instead of Cross-skills.

fixed

Except it's been said several times he doesn't see SAM as a Tank so....

[ChaozK]

That kind of RDM will have very few relevant White Magic spells and none that actually restores HP meaningfully in combat.

The whm spells would be in the form of utility. It seems to be the most true to its root form, since if you make it a healer, that would cut its dps side short and making it a tank imo doesnt make sense when RDMs focus has never been about defense.

That would be terrible for BRD MCH players unless you find a way to make BRD MCH comps desirable.

Oh BRD+MCH comps are terrible and would continue to be terrible, however that wouldnt be terrible for BRD and MCH players to the same degree as a DRG+MNK comp being viable isnt terrible for NIN players.

[shao32]

i don't particularly care if they switched if there's a logical way SAM doesn't end up as another heavy armored two-handed weapon wielding tank AND RDMs can meaningfully use Healing spells in a DPS role without somehow being a DPS lost.

i know both jobs can do both roles, but well if they let me choose i dont go to lie i prefer samurai for tank ^^
but im fine if they make rdm fot the role

[SpookyGhost]

Didn't read the whole topic, but just throwing in that having 4 tanks and 4 healers would even out the meta a bit as long as they competed for WAR's and SCH's spot respectively.

[Freyyy]

Didn't read the whole topic, but just throwing in that having 4 tanks and 4 healers would even out the meta a bit as long as they competed for WAR's and SCH's spot respectively.

That's what I'm thinking too. Also the fact that when we look at the numbers of available jobs for each role we have : 3 tanks, 3 healers, 3 melee DPS, and 4 ranged DPS. So the most logical thing would be releasing a 4th tank, healer and melee DPS to even all of this out. But it also depends on how you're seeing the ranged DPS thing, some people might consider that we actually have 2 physical ranged and 2 mages, which in that case would make it more logical for them to first release a 3rd mage and a 3rd physical ranged. I don't know how the devs see it themselves.

I also think that 4.0 would be a good time to introduce jobs that could switch between two different roles like in WoW or other MMOs as long as it's out of a duty (changing roles during a dungeon would cause some problems in DF parties). SAM and RDM could both work like that, SAM could switch between a pure melee DPS spec or a tank spec, and RDM could switch between a support-y half-melee-half-ranged DPS (which could fill the role of BRD/MCH but as a semi-melee) or a healer. Since it would be impossible for them to switch during a battle or even a dungeon, making them as powerful as other jobs in each of their roles would be completely balanced as long as they have to wear a different gearset depending on the spec (other classes have to gear a different job to play another role so it should be the same for them). You'd have an extra tab in the action/traits window which would be called something like "Specialization" or just "Role", which would display the skills and traits that would change when switching between these specs (Like SAM would have defensive and threat-generating abilities that would swap with offensive abilities, extra combo finishers and extra DPS mechanics. Vitality traits would be swapped with STR traits, and stuff like that). You'd then click a button to swap spec, and your job icon color in the party would change accordingly as well as the role you're registered as in DF. To avoid having DPS SAMs going into dungeons as tanks with their DPS gearset just to have faster queues, gearset would have the actual spec into the conditions of equipment on top of the job (there would be a set for tank SAM and a set for DPS SAM as well as a different weapon - the skin might be the exact same - but atleast different sets with different stats, since their main stat would change as well, being VIT for tank, STR for DPS, and for RDM they could go with MND for healer spec and INT for DPS spec even if it's half-melee - having a melee-ish disciple of magic would be nice).

If they did that, with only 2 new jobs they would add : 1 new tank, 1 new healer, 1 new pure melee DPS, and 1 new support-y DPS with a mix between ranged and melee abilities (and you'd have to either use both ranged and melee in a specific rotation in order to get your optimal DPS, alternating between the two like BLM between ice and fire, or just having melee for single-targetting, and ranged spells for AoEing and support-y things).

It would also open the door in the future for adding eventual DPS specs to DRK and WAR, and maybe some other interesting things like that for every job (DRG tank, MNK tank ? Since both are part of the tankier jobs in old FFs).

[Shurrikhan]

snip

As much as I'd rather see jobs that could build towards multiple roles within their actual rotations or be allotting their uptime and tools to those purposes (not just in how often they're healing vs. dpsing, but also in preparation, resources built, combos variably finished, and CD usage, etc.), even jobs that can fulfill multiple roles by swapping outside of duty or by changing role gear sets between pulls, etc., could probably help a lot.

Ideally, I'd want most jobs to have a larger level of accessible, but not necessarily immediate, options available to them (they can heal, but it has a skill ceiling to weave in such as to not cripple one's dps alongside it; limited off-role burst, filler, or immediacy), that make you feel more like the "job" rather than the "role".

That's mostly just my preferences talking for now though. I'd take a long essay to establish why I think that'd help so much with the future of the game in the long run.

Also, a whole hog iteration of DRK dps could and should be terrifying. Fewer tools automatically allotted exclusively towards mitigation, but even more able to use what mitigation they create for utter havoc...

[Machop]

I'd love for them to add a new tank, healer, and a DPS akin to what they did with heavensward. However, I sincerely don't want them to be carbon copies of what we currently have but with a new skin. Introduce some new gameplay mechanics to ffxiv, SE!

[Ametrine]

Would the role switch concept work when you take into account SCH/SMN and the fact the devs want to steer clear of a class break like that from now on?


I feel if RDM became a DPS, it would fall in line with SMN on the utility scale, but have a melee focused build.

If RDM couldn't pull PLD skills for cross class, it better have it's own provoke or it will be shunted by most players for being an underskilled and broken, even if WHM and BLM crossing makes perfect sense.

[ADVSS]

I feel if RDM became a DPS, it would fall in line with SMN on the utility scale, but have a melee focused build.

some are saying give it 3 cross classes which would destroy the balance that jobs are founded on.(unless they open up a third for each job, which could be great or terrible) yes we could get a tank + healer in this expansion, least popular roles, good queue times all around, again least popular roles, one of which has to have special rewards for playing it like mounts and titles. And extra bonuses just for signing up for DF, We could use more jobs that are in that bracket, we also have a different inbalance that you might not be thinking of. we have 3 vit based jobs, 3 dex based, 2 int based, 2 strength based, and 3 mind based. for stat balance an int based and str based would be more balance to me, which...means...

And yes*edit to the statement, i could see a dps rdm being a bit in like with smn, maybe even smn/nin and if they took it overboard with the utility id expect damages to be close to bard/mch, If less overtop i could see them being alot close to nin, but maybe vastly superior aoe burst instead of single target, well that would be my dream of it. but i would also want if it does wield rapier to have a gapcloser/gap operner to put it in melee or casting range depending how close the target is.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

As much as I'd rather see jobs that could build towards multiple roles within their actual rotations or be allotting their uptime and tools to those purposes (not just in how often they're healing vs. dpsing, but also in preparation, resources built, combos variably finished, and CD usage, etc.), even jobs that can fulfill multiple roles by swapping outside of duty or by changing role gear sets between pulls, etc., could probably help a lot.

Ideally, I'd want most jobs to have a larger level of accessible, but not necessarily immediate, options available to them (they can heal, but it has a skill ceiling to weave in such as to not cripple one's dps alongside it; limited off-role burst, filler, or immediacy), that make you feel more like the "job" rather than the "role".

That's mostly just my preferences talking for now though. I'd take a long essay to establish why I think that'd help so much with the future of the game in the long run.

Also, a whole hog iteration of DRK dps could and should be terrifying. Fewer tools automatically allotted exclusively towards mitigation, but even more able to use what mitigation they create for utter havoc...

I always thought Dancer could be a nice alternate job off rogue...