[MCH] 123 Combo Help

[lBurnquist]

Once you use up the slug proc you go back to 1 regardless if you got a 3 proc or not. If Clean procced you proceed to use it.
The idea is to always have 2 & 3 always with their proc activated but never go over more then 1 rotation trying to get a 2nd proc on number 2.
Quick Reload *should* on Cooldown even if it means using it on a procced Clean Shot. Don't use it on Hot or lead shot….

Do I have a Clean Shot proc + Ammunition?Use Split Shot.
Do I have a Slug Shot proc + Ammunition?Use Slug Shot.
Do I have no procs + Ammunition?Use Split Shot.
Do I have a Clean Shot proc + No Ammunition?Use Clean Shot.

1-You would want to use Clean Shot only if no ammo is available OR saving Reassemble + Ammo for top damage. Am I correct?
2-Should I always save Quick Reload to use after Slug Shot if not possible 1?
3-If Reload is available DONT spam 123, but try following the above statements?

[Myon88]

I'm not sure where you got those from, but I think it's making it more complicated than it has to be.

All you need to know is there are times where you don't want to just cycle through 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3.. on autopilot. There are times where after going 1-2, you now have a Clean Shot procced and ready to be fired, but it's preferable to go back and fire another 1 instead to proc/try and proc 2.

For example,

1. If you know that in the next few moments an AoE is going to appear that forces you to move, would you rather go into that phase by doing Split-Slug-Split (so you have an instant Slug Shot and Clean Shot in the bank to fire while running), or Split-Slug-Clean (now you've used up all your procs, you have to start from the beginning and stand and cast Split Shot at the worst time possible)

2. In our opener, you'll often have 6 ammo to use consecutively (Reload, plus Quick Reload afterwards). If you do Split-Slug-Clean-Split-Slug-Clean you will waste 2 ammo on clean shots that don't produce any useful procs. If you do Split-Slug-Clean-Split-Slug-Split, now you've only wasted 1 ammo out of the 6 on clean shot.*

*This is also very important because it's what allows our opener/wildfires to be performed with full freedom of movement, which is a huge advantage we have over other class's burst sequences. If you don't go 1-2-1 at this part, you won't be able to do it.

split (wildfire), slug, clean, split, slug, split, clean, slug - every GCD in the sequence can be fired instantly while running
split (wildfire), slug, clean, split, slug, clean, split, slug - here you're forced to stand still and cast at the bolded portion

[Rongway]

In addition to Myon's reply regarding mobility, because of the way ammo works, you will lose out on some potency if you go 1-2-3-1-2-3 compared to 1-2-1-3-2-1

1-2-3-1-2-3 goes like this:
Split: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 40 expected potency on Slug Shot (we call this +40 instead of +80 because without ammo it's expected to proc 50% of the time anyway)
Slug: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 50 expected potency on Clean Shot (we accounted for the "combo" bonus in Split shot, and are now accounting for "combo" bonus on Clean shot)
Clean: 150 base + 20 ammo bonus
Split: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 40 expected potency on Slug Shot
Slug: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 50 expected potency on Clean Shot
Clean: 150 base + 20 ammo bonus
====
Total 1160


If you do 1-2-1-3-2-1 instead,
Split: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 40 expected potency on Slug Shot
Slug: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 50 expected potency on Clean Shot
Split: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 40 expected potency on Slug Shot
Clean: 150 base + 20 ammo bonus
Slug: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 50 expected potency on Clean Shot
Split: 140 base + 20 ammo bonus + 40 expected potency on Slug Shot
====
Total 1190, 30 potency more than 1-2-3-1-2-3


(edit: original maths used 100 and 100 as base potencies for Slug Shot and Clean Shot; updated to include the 50% bonus)

[lBurnquist]

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-snip-

Thank you both kindly for your answers!

Also, still adapting to the 121321 combo and got myself with a question:

Its pretty common that once I start the combo right after the first 1 I pop a Quick Reload and proceed with the rotation using Reassemble before 3 etc. However, Quick Reload then becomes available right before the fourth 2 (it would be: 121321213 -right here- 23). Actually, now that I think of it, its much further ahead in the rotation, but still it happens pretty often if not always. In the end, am I making any mistakes proceeding with the rotation as exemplified above?

[Myon88]

Just to clarify, as far as our openers and wildfire sequences are concerned, I would recommend thinking of it as 123121 instead of 121321. The reason for that is due to the way Rapid Fire fits into our opener and wildfire sequences.

If you consider this opener which is the one I use myself,

(Quick Reload before pull) This is just optional to give Hot Shot an extra 20 potency
Hot Shot, (Hypercharge) + optional potion
Lead Shot, (Reload)
Split, (Wildfire)
Slug, (Gauss Round)(Reassemble)
Clean, (Quick Reload)(Rapid Fire)
Split, (Ricochet)
Slug, (Head Graze)
Split, (Blank)
Clean,
Slug, [Wildfire explodes here]

Note the bolded portion, basically you want Rapid Fire to be used on as many Split Shots as possible, because RF makes shots instant cast. All the Slug and Clean shots you're firing in the opener are already instant due to ammo procs, so the benefit you gain from using Rapid Fire charges on them is very minimal. Split Shot on the other hand must always be manually casted, so making them instant is a much bigger gain. Of course we can't use all 3 charges on split-split-split since we'll overlap procs that way, so the best case scenario is using it on the split-slug-split 1-2-1 sequence so that 2 out of 3 charges are used on Split Shot.

So this dictates where we put rapid fire in the opener, like so: 123 (Rapid Fire) 121 32.

If you arranged it as (Rapid Fire) 121 321 32, you can see that you would have to put Rapid Fire in front which is very awkward, because there simply isn't any space for it at that point in the opener without clipping a GCD.
There's also no way to avoid hardcasting the 1 bolded above, unless you do 121 (Rapid Fire) 321 32, but then you'll be using Rapid Fire on only one Split Shot instead of two which is suboptimal.

Basically if you put all this together you'll see our opener can only really be constructed in a certain specific way.

1. Wildfire has to be used after the first weaponskill
2. The 1-2-3 weaponskills must be used in a specific sequence in the opener
3. You can normally weave 2 ogcds behind instant cast weaponskills, but only 1 ogcd when RF is active (because it shortens the GCD), and only 1 ogcd behind weaponskills that you hardcast
4. There is a specific position for some ogcds (RF must be before the 121 portion, Reassemble must be before Clean Shot)
5. Everything else like Ricochet/Gauss Round/Head Graze/Blank that is just pure damage you can shuffle around to wherever feels more comfortable for you - it's not a big deal.

There are some exotic alternatives to this opener, and we haven't even gotten into openers that preload 5 ammo for example -- but it's a long story and they're not really relevant to the discussion, and in any case Aurily would be the better person to ask (sadly it looks like he's no longer playing).

Edit:
Now if you're asking about the general case for this situation outside of our opener, when you have no cooldowns up and are just cycling through 1-2-3 normally, then point #1 from my previous post applies. You can hold your Clean Shot proc, and take a detour back to Split Shot to try and fish for a Slug Shot if you anticipate movement, but otherwise it's not a big deal. There is no difference in DPS between 123,123,123... and 121... as long as you don't overwrite procs or sit on them for so long that they disappear.

[lBurnquist]

-snip-

I must say Im surprised with the amount of great tips here, thank you so much once again!

Oh and btw, i got the afirmations from Krietor's and Cascadi's machiais guides.