Civilized Conflict

[Theodric]

It makes a lot more sense when you consider that if it weren't for Garlemald and Primals Eorzea would likely be at war with itself. Much like it has been throughout a lot of it's known history. That the Grand Companies would bicker over powerful Allagan relics doesn't at all surprise me. It fits. That isn't to say that PvP hasn't been handled poorly where the lore is concerned but still.

[Morningstar1337]

It makes a lot more sense when you consider that if it weren't for Garlemald and Primals Eorzea would likely be at war with itself. Much like it has been throughout a lot of it's known history. That the Grand Companies would bicker over powerful Allagan relics doesn't at all surprise me. It fits. That isn't to say that PvP hasn't been handled poorly where the lore is concerned but still.

To add, there had been two examples of the states of Eorzea not being as buddy-buddy with each other as the game depicts

• The Autumn War: The reason the Alliance was initially formed in the first place was because Ala Mhigo waged war on the Twelveswood. And proved to be a danger to the other three states in the process. In essence their first common enemy came form within
• The Dragonsong War: More neutral than malicious, but Ishgard was the only citystate that didn't willingly join the Alliance when it reformed, despite that the Garleans would be much more dangerous that Nidhogg's petty rage in the long run. Not to mention that Thordian the leader at the time would not be that far off from Ala Mhigo's King of Ruin when it come to ambitions of dominance.

It is also worth noting that while the GC leaders are friends, the cultures would still be at odds and each of them have higher powers that would likely wage war with each other if they wanted. For Ul'dah, its the Syndicate, specifically the Monaterist faction. For Gridiania, its the elementals who have been liken to a cult in other threads and for Limsa? Well in that cast Mewlyb is the actual leader but there is still the potential for rouge pirates messing things up in a vacuum (as in, if there weren't bigger fish to fry like Garlemald).

Likewise each of the States have their own reaosn for coveting the Allagan relics. Ul'dah's Syndicate would easily profit off the Allagan infomation there, The Elementals would see said infomation as something to be hidden given the trouble the technology had caused (with the possibility of Allag influencing Mhach, the instigator of the War of the Magi that pissed them off to create a biblical great flood.) and like Ul'dah, Limsa could profit off the knowledge and would likely use it themselves rather then selling it to the highest bidder (Note that Rowena was from Ul'dah)

(Note the Allag-Mhach thing is speculation on my end. Based around the use of voidsent)

[MiraKershaw]

It makes a lot more sense when you consider that if it weren't for Garlemald and Primals Eorzea would likely be at war with itself. Much like it has been throughout a lot of it's known history. That the Grand Companies would bicker over powerful Allagan relics doesn't at all surprise me. It fits. That isn't to say that PvP hasn't been handled poorly where the lore is concerned but still.

Find this VERY hard to believe the only known conflict is between Ala Mhigo and thats because they wanted to annex the shroud, if you think about it there's not really a possible way they would war with each other if we are thinking the main three, Gridania sticks to itself in the shroud, Ul'dah wouldnt want to waste money to push into shroud or build a navy to take Limsa, or Limsa to take on a infantry based nation like Ul'dah.

Mainly because elementals of the shroud, ul'dah trying to take on a navy based nation like limsa and vice versa, all possible conflicts seem to negated by how the nations themselves are set up.

[Morningstar1337]

Mainly because elementals of the shroud, ul'dah trying to take on a navy based nation like limsa and vice versa, all possible conflicts seem to negated by how the nations themselves are set up.

I still think that how the nations are set up would also be the reason there is potential for war between them. If the Elementals were known for being pacifists, we wouldn't have Mhach attempt play Noah's Ark. Ul'dah could easy buy out the more corrupt people of La Noscea (who bear in mind, ARE pirates) and distribute the Trader's Spurn to further turn their opponents into allies (That's how they dealt with Sil'dih). Limsa Lominsa? again, pirates and likely with some people wanting to go back to the days of yore were piracy was king.

The potential for war is there, with the only fetters being a desire to not be annexed but a foreign power (Garlemald), or stripped of their free will and turned into a more blatant and dangerous theorcratic version of themselves serving a God-Emporer, as well as the realpolitik that became the result of the GC formations and alliance (And even then, that already puts them odds with the Syndicate). The Final fetter on whatever desire for war is there is the prominence of a certain NGO to aid them in repelling Garlemald and the Primals so that they can retain their freedom/free will.

[MiraKershaw]

I still think that how the nations are set up would also be the reason there is potential for war between them. If the Elementals were known for being pacifists, we wouldn't have Mhach attempt play Noah's Ark. Ul'dah could easy buy out the more corrupt people of La Noscea (who bear in mind, ARE pirates) and distribute the Trader's Spurn to further turn their opponents into allies (That's how they dealt with Sil'dih). Limsa Lominsa? again, pirates and likely with some people wanting to go back to the days of yore were piracy was king.

I don't really see the Elementals as pacifists but more of a ward, you mess with the elementals you get nuked and who wants that, also you seem to think Ul'dah is a united even though every syndicate member seems to have their own distrust amongst each other and are even more corrupt than the people of la noscea, not to mention each syndicate member more or less has their own private army.

As for buying out the pirates, Ul'dah has no way to gurantee the pirates into doing their work, with no navy to pressure them, the pirates have free will , whats stopping them from just taking the money and buggering off, or just raiding ul'dah merchant ships, limsans would even pay them more for doing that, and as you said piracy is king, ul'dah wouldnt trust pirates if they can barely trust themselves.

[EdwinLi]

These mock battles are also the result of disagreement on how to handle the Allagan technology.

Each city state want to use them for different reason with each reason being a belief that their method will benefit Eorzea.

We don't really know what each City State wish to use the Allagan tech and knowledge for but best guess is that...

Ul'dah wants to use it to advance Eorzea's Industrial side. Well this is basically Industrialisation.

Gridania wants to use it to advance the more Medical and Agriculture side. Good for improving farming, medical knowledge for finding non-magical cures for diseases, and prevent any agriculture issues or repair damages from old agriculture issues.

Limsa wants to use it to advance Military technology side. Better ships, weapons, and vehicles which are great for defending against possible invasion and being well equipped to travel into unknown lands.

All three benefits Eorzea but each City State only see their method as better than the other two and with there not being enough Allagan Tech for all three they rather set up a mock battle over a actual war for how they believe Eorzea should advance in technology.

[TinyRedLeaf]

...but best guess is that...

Ul'dah wants to use it to advance Eorzea's Industrial side. Well this is basically Industrialisation.

Gridania wants to use it to advance the more Medical and Agriculture side. Good for improving farming, medical knowledge for finding non-magical cures for diseases, and prevent any agriculture issues or repair damages from old agriculture issues.

Limsa wants to use it to advance Military technology side. Better ships, weapons, and vehicles which are great for defending against possible invasion and being well equipped to travel into unknown lands.

I know this is just guesswork based on headcanon , but I'm curious why you think Ul'dah would be the first to industrialise.

Ul'dahn economy, for the most part, is based on trade and services, and its most valuable exports are luxury goods (mainly high-quality textiles and precious gems). Ul'dahn intelligentsia, from what I can tell, are mainly working as traders or merchants, or as the clergy of the Nald'Thal church. The alchemists of the city are the city's most likely entrepreneurs but, as a guild, they're part of the Monetarist faction, which is more inclined towards commerce than heavy industry.

Limsa Lominsa, more pertinently, is home to the realm's foremost metallurgical guilds, and given the extensive shipbuilding industry that already exists, Limsa blacksmiths and armourers are only a small step away from industrialisation. They just need to make the societal and technological leap to mass production and, voila, you'd have a modern industrial state akin to that of Garlemald. Given the presence of arcanists, who are by far the most scientifically driven of Eorzea's mage classes, I'd say that odds of Limsa making that technological leap are better than those of the other city-states.

As you noted, Lominsans are predisposed towards war. And nothing drives technological progress like warfare.

[Morningstar1337]

I know this is just guesswork based on headcanon , but I'm curious why you think Ul'dah would be the first to industrialise.

probably because Ul'dah is a plutocracy, and because they can get more money with industrialization. So the most gredy there will likely look into it. As for the Allagan knowledge itself, as I mentioned before, they can also profit off selling the knowledge itself, as already proven by one of her citizens.

As for the warfare part, they still have to contend with the technologically advanced Garlean Empire, so theres alreay ample oppotunity for both to improve their own tech.

[EdwinLi]

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As Mooningstar said industrialisation fits Ul'dah because it will sky rocket economic profits. Ul'dah is a city state that focus more on economic profits which industrialisation effects is partly known for improving at a massive scale due to being able to mass produce products that is used for different services and goods while also introducing new methods to produce expensive goods at a low cost rate for production allowing them to gain even more in profit from those expensive goods.

Limsa is not really a industrialisation type of City State as it focus more on Military advancements such as the development of Guns to replace bows and arrows, better warships, organized military training, and etc far more than Ul'dah and Gridania.

Ul'dah's main military, the Brass Blade, is mostly just a private military force for Corporations, being the Syndicate, and are just as corrupt as their Corporate masters. Syndicate only supports the Brass Blade because they need a military force to protect their "High valued" interests.

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Well all three certainly benefits them in military improvement as well but with limited Allagan Tech and Knowledge to advance only one method it certainly comes into question where will they want to improve on.

If we go for Ul'dah industrialisation then more weapons, gears, and supplies can be created thus risk of being low on any type of weapons, vehicles for different method of travel, building materials, and supplies will be reduce greatly. This will also increase the ability to establish more bases and outposts due to having plenty of supply to support these bases and outposts. However, we will only be able to mass produce current technology type things which gives the garlean a advantage in military technology and medical technology along with better understanding of terrains.

If we go for Gridania medical and agriculture then we can have better knowledge of terrains and medical knowledge thus a better understanding for mobilizing units through different types of lands and soldiers will not need to depend on Healing magic as much as before due to now gaining better access to non-magical medicine for any injuries and diseases. However, the ability to mass produce these non-magical cures and Eorzea's military technology won't be as advance as the Garlean Empire.

If we go Limsa then we will get better military technology to combat any invaders and if we enter unknown territory we have better technology weapons to fight any unknown threats along with better vehicles and ships will help greatly for long distance travel as well. However, the garleans will have a advantage over being able to mass produce supplies and materials to create their stuff better and better knowledge over medical technology and terrain.

[Alberel]

IIRC didn't Nanamo at one point state that the Frontlines battles were actually staged as a front to stop Lolorito laying claim to the territory? The GCs aren't actually feuding over anything, they're just contesting the land to ensure what's buried there (Omega) doesn't fall into less scrupulous hands.

I do think we'll see the GC restrictions on PvP lifted eventually, but Yoshi is waiting for some specific story event to explain it. I hope that it may be soon now that the Alliance is reformed.