Fat Moogle Mount on Mogstation!

[Teryaani]

It´s not really the same.
I have stated that some poster´s opinions were nothing but wild speculations, which is a fact and matches the dictionary description of the word speculation.

Offer me a mirror when i claim that my opinions are untouchable or that they are the absolute truth on the subject at hand.
So far, i did not do so, i merely discarded someone else´s opinions as invalid.

Close, but no cigar, Zigabar.

Claiming the speculations, and it's worth noting that your original post was global - it wasn't quoting anyone, are "wild" is implying that they are without merit or baseless. Again, you weren't replying to anyone specific in your trigger post, you were replying to everyone who didn't like the cash shop. So you discarded all of their opinions as invalid.

[SagaSoluna]

snip-

That is because their complaints are based on something that none of us has real access to it´s relevant data.
It of course also applies to me, but that does not make my dismissal any less valid.

Saying "The tooltip says this ability shoul do 100 damage and it does 150 damage instead" is a valid complaint because it is something you can prove.
Saying "Every time an exclusive item makes it to the cash shop, it means they cut content from the game or it´s developing time that could have been added to the game" is pure speculation.

Why? Because in truth none of us knows how they work at SE or how they organize to create extra content, or if that content would have been created at all without the mogstation, or even if it´s made by the same team etc etc etc.

It´s does not have the same validity as a regular complaint.

[Teryaani]

That is because their complaints are based on something that none of us has real access to it´s relevant data.
It of course also applies to me, but that does not make my dismissal any less valid.

Saying "The tooltip says this ability shoul do 100 damage and it does 150 damage instead" is a valid complaint because it is something you can prove.
Saying "Every time an exclusive item makes it to the cash shop, it means they cut content from the game or it´s developing time that could have been added to the game" is pure speculation.

Why? Because in truth none of us knows how they work at SE or how they organize to create extra content, or if that content would have been created at all without the mogstation, or even if it´s made by the same team etc etc etc.

It´s does not have the same validity as a regular complaint.

Voicing concerns based on trends and trends seen in comparable products is fine though. I personally prefer to include as much caveat-loaded language as I can when I'm not worked up, but I slip up too.

I'm actually thinking that the real disagreement is over what people feel is included in a subscription. Before you say it, yeah - Square did tell us that they reserved the option to do additive services and left it vague enough, but that's where the word "feel" comes in.

Square never promised to leave the holiday items on the vendors, but people felt like they should have and so were upset about it. The sort of items that show up in the cash shop had always been part of the game so people felt like those items were being taken out of the game rather than being made just for the cash shop. This is almost definitely the way it was planned, but the player that's upset didn't know that and so all they see is something that they feel had been included in the game and now is being charged as an extra.

I don't think SE has been excessive - I mean the dyes were stupid and the furnishing thing about it being destroyed was dumb, but in aggregate, they've been good in my opinion. Othe's have a different threshold and I'm not going to change their minds. I do agree that countering factual inaccuracies is important though.

[SagaSoluna]

-snip-

But this is precisely what i was trying to explain!
My complaint against this thread was that people are passing feelings and assumptions as absolute facts.
Hack, in some messages they even claim that only the ignorant and uncaring could ever possibly disagree with their conclusions and i find their to be ridiculous, as again, it´s not based on facts.

[Skivvy]

But this is precisely what i was trying to explain!
My complaint against this thread was that people are passing feelings and assumptions as absolute facts.
Hack, in some messages they even claim that only the ignorant and uncaring could ever possibly disagree with their conclusions and i find their to be ridiculous, as again, it´s not based on facts.

You spin a fancy tale. You have twisted and manipulated so many comments in this thread, it's amazing. Don't try and act like the reasonable one now.

[SagaSoluna]

You spin a fancy tale. You have twisted and manipulated so many comments in this thread, it's amazing. Don't try and act like the reasonable one now.

Prove your accusations against me or stop attacking me personally.
I am getting tired of being called a liar and a manipulator by you, every other page.

[Skivvy]

Prove your accusations against me or stop attacking me personally.
I am getting tired of being called a liar and a manipulator by you, every other page.

Well, my favorite so far has been your gross misinterpretation of my comment, and your following response:

You sound like them Tumblr Feminists
"If you don´t agree with me you don´t know any better"

Pathetic and saddening, literally.

I mean, clearly you are far better than the rest of us. You would never stoop to personal attacks.

[Teryaani]

But this is precisely what i was trying to explain!
My complaint against this thread was that people are passing feelings and assumptions as absolute facts.
Hack, in some messages they even claim that only the ignorant and uncaring could ever possibly disagree with their conclusions and i find their to be ridiculous, as again, it´s not based on facts.

Sure, and those people aren't worth bothering with. Admittedly I replied to one of the "I'm going to make fun of people who buy that thing!", mainly to point out that that would be harassment. It was an effort to hopefully keep the person from wrecking someone else's day.

Mixed in with those posters are far more people saying that there are lines they don't want SE to cross and that's probably a good thing for Square to know. Just so we're clear, we're in the same camp. Facts rarely change feelings in an argument though.

[Chalbee]

...So you discarded all of their opinions as invalid.

Please see my earlier post RE: opinion vs. assertion. It is fair game to criticize baseless speculation which is used to back an assertion. As a matter of fact, invalidating your opponent's arguments is the entire point of debate. If you don't want to be invalidated, don't build truth statements on shaky premises. De gustibus non est disputandum. De veritate disputandum est!

[Teryaani]

Please see my earlier post RE: opinion vs. assertion. It is fair game to criticize baseless speculation which is used to back an assertion. As a matter of fact, invalidating your opponent's arguments is the entire point of debate. If you don't want to be invalidated, don't build truth statements on shaky premises. De gustibus non est disputandum. De veritate disputandum est!

Except that that particular "speculation" includes, as mentioned previously, the leveling pot. Which wasn't baseless as the producer of the game himself brought it up as a possibility. So referring to all of people prior as making a baseless claim is false. In addition, citing trends in comparable products is a perfectly valid approach to speculation - not baseless.

Citing it as fact? No, but neither are they wild speculations.