Thread: We're getting stat allocation back in 1.20, right?

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.

This sounds more likely

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.

It would be completely idiotic of them to switch it back, it was always an impossible to balance system. You can't have that large of a variation between possible allotments without either nullifying the effect of any +stat bonuses or invalidating the freedom of choice that you're supposedly given.

Let's look at how it used to be, with stats so wildly useless that you really didn't see a change in mitigation from 110 VIT to 174 VIT, it was just for HP purposes.

Now consider, that the game is balanced around the idea that any tank is able to survive and hold hate no matter what his stats were (which is what the allocation system was). This destroys the incentive to improve yourself through gear because nothing will ever give a noticeable effect to your "effectiveness". DDs just wore plate because it gave damage cuts they didn't care about +8 str from haub or +2 str from penance because you couldn't see it having any effect whatsoever.

Now consider, option two, that you need to have so much VIT to survive against this boss, or that monster. Why even give people the choice to mess it up? Why erase the baseline of stats and create more confusion? There's absolutely no reason to support that (which is why we have the stat system we have now). It would just end up destroying the possibility of what the class can do. Imagine a CNJ who put all of his allotment into INT because it is required to be able to nuke this monster, and is now no longer able to cure well, or a GLA/MRD who has very little VIT so he is just absolutely incapable of mitigation. It was very annoying pre-1.19 to join a party with a GLA who was a crafter so he had 0 str and 0 vit allotted so he was missing half his blocks with a scutum and had the lowest hp in the entire party. If everyone HAS to use a certain setup then just make it uniform for the class.

A baseline stat system based on level and job, combined with an additional merit system on top of it is the way to go at the moment. You know what to expect of that class at that level, at the very least they will be able to perform. You will never have a full STR/VIT GLA or PLD who just can not cure themselves at all because they have no MND or PIE. There won't be Lancers who die in one hit because they want the biggest numbers in existence and did a billion STR. A merit system will allow you to customize towards the role you want to excel in, and the baseline protects you from failing to balance yourself. If you are a DD marauder, you would go for STR, if you are a tanking MRD you'd go VIT, nuking CNJ would go INT and primarily healing CNJ would go MND. Remember, these are effectively bonuses on top of the stats they already have so they will never be able to not do something just because points aren't available. As I said, just think of this as a couple of extra stat materia bonuses.

On the same note though, you can allow gear bonuses to be more powerful. What good is Penance +2 str going to do in the old system if you could just choose, at any time you wanted, to have more str? You could choose to have 174 if you wanted and you still couldn't see a difference in your performance. It completely dwarfs the +2 str from the belt so who in the world would ever care? Now, +stats aren't so readily available and they can carry more weight so you are rewarded for getting any upgrades you can, whether through materia, gear upgrades, or this merit bonus system.

You can see the difference in physical mitigation with a single +20 VIT materia, pre-1.19 VIT did nothing at all even if you had 230 of it.

Seriously, why would you even want the old system back? It was horrible beyond belief.

Originally Posted by Stufoo

It would be completely idiotic of them to switch it back, it was always an impossible to balance system. You can't have that large of a variation between possible allotments without either nullifying the effect of any +stat bonuses or invalidating the freedom of choice that you're supposedly given.

Let's look at how it used to be, with stats so wildly useless that you really didn't see a change in mitigation from 110 VIT to 174 VIT, it was just for HP purposes.

Now consider, that the game is balanced around the idea that any tank is able to survive and hold hate no matter what his stats were (which is what the allocation system was). This destroys the incentive to improve yourself through gear because nothing will ever give a noticeable effect to your "effectiveness". DDs just wore plate because it gave damage cuts they didn't care about +8 str from haub or +2 str from penance because you couldn't see it having any effect whatsoever.

Now consider, option two, that you need to have so much VIT to survive against this boss, or that monster. Why even give people the choice to mess it up? Why erase the baseline of stats and create more confusion? There's absolutely no reason to support that (which is why we have the stat system we have now). It would just end up destroying the possibility of what the class can do. Imagine a CNJ who put all of his allotment into INT because it is required to be able to nuke this monster, and is now no longer able to cure well, or a GLA/MRD who has very little VIT so he is just absolutely incapable of mitigation. It was very annoying pre-1.19 to join a party with a GLA who was a crafter so he had 0 str and 0 vit allotted so he was missing half his blocks with a scutum and had the lowest hp in the entire party. If everyone HAS to use a certain setup then just make it uniform for the class.

A baseline stat system based on level and job, combined with an additional merit system on top of it is the way to go at the moment. You know what to expect of that class at that level, at the very least they will be able to perform. You will never have a full STR/VIT GLA or PLD who just can not cure themselves at all because they have no MND or PIE. There won't be Lancers who die in one hit because they want the biggest numbers in existence and did a billion STR. A merit system will allow you to customize towards the role you want to excel in, and the baseline protects you from failing to balance yourself. If you are a DD marauder, you would go for STR, if you are a tanking MRD you'd go VIT, nuking CNJ would go INT and primarily healing CNJ would go MND. Remember, these are effectively bonuses on top of the stats they already have so they will never be able to not do something just because points aren't available. As I said, just think of this as a couple of extra stat materia bonuses.

On the same note though, you can allow gear bonuses to be more powerful. What good is Penance +2 str going to do in the old system if you could just choose, at any time you wanted, to have more str? You could choose to have 174 if you wanted and you still couldn't see a difference in your performance. It completely dwarfs the +2 str from the belt so who in the world would ever care? Now, +stats aren't so readily available and they can carry more weight so you are rewarded for getting any upgrades you can, whether through materia, gear upgrades, or this merit bonus system.

You can see the difference in physical mitigation with a single +20 VIT materia, pre-1.19 VIT did nothing at all even if you had 230 of it.

Seriously, why would you even want the old system back? It was horrible beyond belief.

Well said Stu.

The old system (Total Stat Point Allocation) bugged me from Day 1 Launch of the game.

Think about it: If someone can shift ~200 (TWO HUNDRED) Stat Points around into STR, VIT or whatever they choose, what good is your measly, +5 STR Ring going to do for you?

The old system marginalized most Equipment and Bonuses you got. As Stu said, your Penance Belt with +2 STR was a joke compared to you shifting all your Stat Points over to STR.

The new system is a *combination* of *some* Stat Customization with our current system (where most of your Stats are shifted over for a good baseline).

That way you never have to be screwed if you were maximizing your Stats for, say, Leatherworker Crafting, and then your friends needed your help as a Conjurer (and you couldn't switch all your stats over) or then needed a Tank for another fight (where you didn't have enough time to switch all your stats over again), i.e., the old system, pre-1.19.

I want to see our Stats *mean* something again (like now), so a slight bit of customization is nice (which is what they're going for), but with most of our stats auto-shifted over.

I can't wait for 1.20 and 1.21.

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.

I think they said before (can't find the source >.<) that there will be fewer points than before but they'll make an actual difference this time around.

no vote from me, and I agree with the reply above me

Let's look at how it used to be, with stats so wildly useless that you really didn't see a change in mitigation from 110 VIT to 174 VIT, it was just for HP purposes.

It's no concern because of this fact:

I think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.

Everything else fixes itself. If you die in one hit bigger numbers mean nothing, and you will do no damage while dead. So to min/max you aren't going to bottleneck yourself like that.