For those who give up on Duties too quickly...

[Celef]

Ain't nobody got time for that. Seriously, everyone is all about doing things fast as possible anything that causes them to slow down is met with a rage quit.

Which is reeeaaaaaallllyyyy needed considering the content we have to do.....xD
I love how people always whine about "OMG i'm bored already" 2 days after new patch and yet still keep rushing and ruining new players experiment cause "you know, i don't have time for this"....well actually you do until nex patch xD

[Khalithar]

Sometimes you can just tell when a group isn't going to succeed. Better to leave at that point and eat the penalty.

[Evumeimei]

Sometimes you can just tell when a group isn't going to succeed. Better to leave at that point and eat the penalty.

Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content.

I watch guides if I'm going to be doing something the first time through DF, but I need to get a feel for the content to truly have mechanics ingrained. Seeing someone do something is one thing. Doing it yourself is another. Knowing what you're going into definitely helps, though!

[Worldofwarcraft]

While I agree with both parties, I'm going to have to side with the people defending the new players. Allow me to elaborate. Many players who hit 60 are excited to learn mechanics and try to improve themselves by doing dungeons. Watching a video only teaches you so much, you need to practice the routine before you can actually get it down. Now heres where the problem occurs, players expect new players to get it down perfectly, but if even one mess up happens they rage. The problem with that is than the new player begins to have anxiety, and are discouraged from doing any form of end game. Because of this, the raiding community doesn't see any new faces, and the veteran raiders can't find new players to fill up their Raiding FC, and when the veterans begin to quit, they can't find fresh blood therefore their entire raiding comp dies. Now I hear the excuse "I don't have time for this" well than don't play an MMO, they're very time consuming.

[Khalithar]

Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content.

Then it works out for both sides, the person that wants to leave finds a different group and your party gets a new person that wants to keep going. Sounds like it's working fine to me.

[Bixillarla]

Then it works out for both sides, the person that wants to leave finds a different group and your party gets a new person that wants to keep going. Sounds like it's working fine to me.

Doesn't always work like this. People have to opt in to join a in progress group and many do not. I have sat and waited for a replacement tank for 25 mins before the group gave up and abandoned to reque.

[MaeIsMean]

While I agree with both parties, I'm going to have to side with the people defending the new players. Allow me to elaborate. Many players who hit 60 are excited to learn mechanics and try to improve themselves by doing dungeons. Watching a video only teaches you so much, you need to practice the routine before you can actually get it down. Now heres where the problem occurs, players expect new players to get it down perfectly, but if even one mess up happens they rage. The problem with that is than the new player begins to have anxiety, and are discouraged from doing any form of end game. Because of this, the raiding community doesn't see any new faces, and the veteran raiders can't find new players to fill up their Raiding FC, and when the veterans begin to quit, they can't find fresh blood therefore their entire raiding comp dies. Now I hear the excuse "I don't have time for this" well than don't play an MMO, they're very time consuming.

As someone who joined this game roughly a year ago, I can say with some authority that this is true. I have a quest journal full of Ex trials that I don't want to queue in DF for, because I don't want to put up with people who don't have time for new-comers. I used to be a hard-core raider in other games, but I never did understand the mentality of "I don't have time to teach a new person." It's silly, because that new person might become your most valued raid member (I've seen it happen!). It's not like taking an extra 20-30 mins to finish something is going to make a difference in the long-term.

[Celef]

It's not like taking an extra 20-30 mins to finish something is going to make a difference in the long-term.

You said it, most of the players don't think about long term like we used to in older MMOs :/

[Mirateski]

I stopped queueing for ex primals in DF after a hideous experience in Titan EX where I was eventually kicked because I kept being knocked off as I learned the fight.

It was disappointing, because I'd queued for Garuda EX for like three hours, and ended up with a really nice, friendly group and a co-healer who explained the mech to me, and sure we wiped three times but we did beat it! And I left feeling really good about it. And then titan just killed my confidence for a long time. (and this was before the mentor system existed, too)

A thing I don't understand, especially with older primals, is the expectation that you should back out and do it unsynched. I'm not a mentor, but my partner once got Odin on the mentor roulette and they still cleared it. Hell, my own Odin clear was admittedly at lv60, but in lv50 gear and with no 50+ skills because I was only halfway through the patch quests.

I actually got my Thordan EX clear through duty finder, through queueing for it over and over again and wiping over and over again, but learning! And most of those groups went right up to the timer before we ended up disbanding due to just not having enough time for another pull.

That said, I have very bad self-confidence issues. From that one Titan EX as a healer, to being kicked from Mhach for no reason after an Ozma wipe as a tank (I was mid-explanation of the fight, too), I'm always wary of joining clear or farm groups even if I know the fight because if I DO mess up, I'm concerned people will never want to party with me again.

People are too toxic. Sure, nobody enjoys wiping for ninety minutes, but nobody enjoys being verbally abused and then kicked for learning, either. It's not hard to be kind, and don't queue for something if you don't have time for the entire timer, imo.

[Voltyblast]

You said it, most of the players don't think about long term like we used to in older MMOs :/

It's a problem when a game like this doesn't really promote longterm mentality: each even patch gives new dungeons/raids with new loot in them and makes the old ones totally obsolete, as they don't give any benefits in the longterm (No bonus sets, no special effects, nothing). And the old dungeons that were there will also be ignored because they give no long term rewards (special achivements, costumes, etc) Even the relic isn't worth on the long run, yet it involves grinding for basically a piece of glamour.
The only thing that is saved is the EX trials who had the greatest idea of giving mounts, allowing them to still be run overall. But you won't see this in things like Raid (why would you bother raid Coil? The story? Go on youtube then) or dungeons (the occasional glamour that doesn't totally suck).

In other words, everything in this game is done once and left it to rot, basically the "hit and run" which doesn't really allow new players to come in and learn because...hey I want that mount I don't care about teaching new players!
Change that and you'll see the difference. They won't change anyway so nothing will.
A very sad decision if I may add.