deep dungeon design, why it works

[Rufalus]

Although it's still early days, it's looking to me like the deep dungeon concept is very successful with lots of people participating and spending a lot of hours on it. There are a couple rough edges and while negative feedback is helpful, I think it's also important to reflect on what is does right and analyse why it is successful.

(1) Low barrier of entry. Just the fact that you can enter from Lv17 and your usual gear level is irrelevant makes it so inclusive. Both new players and lapsed players who haven't been keeping up with gearing can jump right in to relevant content without hindering anyone.

(2) Flexible floor rewards. The way it gives either EXP or tomestones depending on your need is a big deal. This way people with different goals have something they can play together. Any battle content needs tomestones to be truly successful, otherwise players who don't have much time to play will need to revert back to the linear dungeons/ roulettes to meet their weekly caps.

(3) Weapons. The game needed more options for relevant weapons and deep dungeon delivers. For whatever reason, crafted weapons are kept far behind, with the IL 180 Bismarck ones being the strongest currently available. That left the only options for IL 230+ weapons being Savage raids, Anima or 7 weeks lockout of normal raid. The new Padjali weapons are a nice addition which is a preferable grind for many people.

(4) Yay for randomness. Until now, PVE content has typically been very linear, exactly the same patterns every time you play. Dungeons in particular could get tiresome fast, with the same enemies in the same positions on repeat forever. Deep dungeon is a brilliant change, always being unfamiliar with its layouts and enemies and threat of hidden traps. If you have to grind something, a bit of randomness goes a long way.

(5) Flexible composition. This is just great for queue times, letting people group up on any jobs or classes, even if healers or tanks are not available. We are rarely afforded this kind of freedom and it's another element which keeps things fresh and interesting as our approach changes depending on what kind of composition the matchmaking gives us.

(6) Honorable mentions... long-term unique rewards from gelmorran potsherds are nice... consumables like potions, echo drops and phoenix down becoming useful again... succubus/manticore transformations are fun to use...

Good job, keep it up! I'm looking forward to future deep dungeons and the remaining floors of Palace of the Dead.

[Nalien]

I've not had the chance to do much Palace of the Dead, but I'm really loving what I've seen so far... Mostly for the same reasons I love the undersized party option; I enjoy being able to just do stuff how I want to, rather than needing a proper balanced party... All the times I've really enjoyed regular dungeons, have been times something has gone "wrong", a tank leaving at the start of the Vault, and Titan-Egi taking us all the way to the last boss before a replacement shows up, for example... The items also make for a really great addition, it's not quite horizontal progression, but it does make opening chests much more rewarding than anywhere else in the game...

I think my only complaint is that the floors can get quite monotonous... Needs some stronger objectives on the floors, like finding items to open up new paths or killing specific enemies, maybe even sneaking past enemies, though that's difficult with how the progression works... Puzzles would also be nice, just work them like Qarn where working it out nets you additional rewards, messing it up nets you some extra enemies... Secret rooms, perhaps even with secret mini-bosses would be quite nice as well... Give us a bomb bag and let us blow up some walls...

[AlexanderThorolund]

Well said OP. You're exactly right.

[JustPlainLucas]

One thing that's an issue for me, because I don't like things spoiled, is that it unlocks abilities that I haven't unlocked on the actual job yet. I got a certain sense of enjoyment out of hitting a level, doing my quest and finding out what my new ability would be. Now, my hotbar is full of level 50+ skills and abilities and it just seems wrong to me that they're there. I did, however, enjoy playing jobs at lvl 60 when I'm only level 50, because it gave me a preview of what it's like. The downside to this, though, is there are players who aren't bothering to use their new abilities because everyone is rushing through the floors. They feel like they aren't afforded the time to learn them.

[Kurogaea]

...

This is a legit point. I recently tried out ninja or this dungeon that was originally lvl 41 and running palace of the dead with all these awesome ninjutsu was reaaally overwhelming. Luckily I'm a pretty quick learner and had some practice with multitasking and monitoring cds with monk, though it was a real huge stepping stone to get past. I believe it would be easier if they had a training dummy inside the lobbies after 10 floors, as well as keep your levels from PotD (and only there, but they return to normal as soon as you leave the lobby completely) so you can test out your new abilities.

Edit: Also, props to the machinists...I have no idea how you do it XD

[JustPlainLucas]

snip

That is a brilliant suggestion! And yeah, my first job on this character was NIN, so I can only imagine what you felt like when you started unlocking all those abilities. Everything is so condition oriented with NIN. Also, when I was doing this with BRD and BLM, I usually waited until we got on the gate to the next level to take a look at the new abilities. This way, I felt like I wasn't lagging behind because I was trying to learn.

[Esp]

To be honest, what I really like about PoTD is just how easily accessible it is. You really don't need anything besides level 17 and the drive to go in xD

Your gear doesn't matter. (Wear whatever you want!)
No need to watch a video.
No sense in worrying about a tank or healer leaving.
Great way for Xp, tomes, gil and just some mindless fun with friends.
Can complete even for materia once mounts, minions and weapons are taken care of.

Besides the randomness of upgrades, it's fun so far. I do hope they build up on this, adding new additions and making it better with each inclusions of floors.

[TankHunter678]

To be honest, what I really like about PoTD is just how easily accessible it is. You really don't need anything besides level 17 and the drive to go in xD

Your gear doesn't matter. (Wear whatever you want!)
No need to watch a video.
No sense in worrying about a tank or healer leaving.
Great way for Xp, tomes, gil and just some mindless fun with friends.
Can complete even for materia once mounts, minions and weapons are taken care of.

Besides the randomness of upgrades, it's fun so far. I do hope they build up on this, adding new additions and making it better with each inclusions of floors.

As my friend showed me you do not need to be level 17 to enter.

You need to be level 17 to unlock palace of the dead. You need to be at least level 1 to run it.

[Remedi]

Despite what dectractors say, PotD is actually very well designed in the grand scheme of things and fulfill what it was meant and what was advertised to be very well

[Esp]

As my friend showed me you do not need to be level 17 to enter.

You need to be level 17 to unlock palace of the dead. You need to be at least level 1 to run it.

Oh, thanks for the heads up xD