Should I Kick before being Kicked?

[Eumona]

"Snip"

I realize I have issues with players running ahead of me. I proved this to myself when I did well in Aurum Vale yesterday. The team stayed with me and gave me time to think. Today that did not happen in Dzemael Darkhold and I did not do well.

When I don't have time to think of what I am going to do, problems happen. I am still having problems quickly targeting through Adds and I have not developed enough muscle memory yet. So yes, I need to think at this point to have a "good" chance at doing well.

[DPZ2]

Make it so that you don't have to say your an "inexperienced tank" on the forums.

Just to be clear here, you are not condoning the behavior of the rest of the party, right?

Aaaaand, you are telling a level 40 tank, who had probably never tanked that particular instance before, that performing like a level 60 tank with dozens of runs of instances is expected behavior for new tanks?

Clarify as necessary, because what I read in your message boiled down to that.

[Claymore022]

Just to be clear here, you are not condoning the behavior of the rest of the party, right?

Aaaaand, you are telling a level 40 tank, who had probably never tanked that particular instance before, that performing like a level 60 tank with dozens of runs of instances is expected behavior for new tanks?

Clarify as necessary, because what I read in your message boiled down to that.

Yes the ppl in that dungeon where very rude to you and i especially disagree with the fact that the healer stopped healing you when you tried to do your job but the underlying problem here is that you are refusing to better yourself.

No, What you're doing is focusing on one line of my post and reading it out of context. A level 40 tank won't play like a level 60, even if he's good, he doesn't have the job skills to do so. The issue was that he wanted us to go slowly behind him when it was unnecessary and refused to try to play at our pace. It's not like anyone was doing big pulls or expected big pulls, we just didn't want to sit there after every pull for a min+ for him to think about his next move. There's literally nothing to think about, all he has to do is use that same weapon skills as he did in the last pull and he would have been fine. Instead he wanted to go slow and so the other dps just started moving ahead and since the healer could keep us all up we just followed suit. He seems to run into these issues in a lot of the dungeons he does so i suggested that he just get better at the game. Look up guides and watch videos of how other tanks play and he won't have issues with other ppl who just want to get the dungeon done. If he does this then he'll learn to recognize that he's in a group that knows what they're doing and all he has to do is basically say he's new at the start of the dungeon and then just enjoy the ride. If there's something he needs to know then someone will tell him, if the group wants him to pull faster then all he's gotta do is keep going from mob to mob and the healer will make up for the rest. He will basically learn proper dungeon etiquette.

Now after reading one of his more recent posts, i can now see that he wants to enjoy the dungeons nice and slow as a new experience and sadly he won't find that in this game unless he gets 3 other ppl who are new to help him with this. The only way to truly experience a lot of this stuff as if it were new is to catch up to current content.

Wait, I'm confused... Hopefully I'm reading this wrong, and there's more I don't know about since I wasn't there to see any of it, but I'm getting the impression here that the rest of the party tried to force the OP into moving at a faster pace than he was comfortable with, started pulling ahead of him when he didn't change his pace to meet their demands, and expected him to be okay with that? And when he reacted to it, the healer punished him by letting him die numerous times and everybody blames him 100%.

...But that being said, I also wouldn't expect a tank in the situation I just described to be all unicorns and rainbows about that kind of treatment.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened other than blaming him 100%. The healer's decision was completely counterproductive. And no i wouldn't expect a tank to be comfortable with that situation either.

[Rawrz]

Vague thread is vague.

Should I kick people before i get kicked?... uh Sure... or or... Deliberate whether they have tried to explain something constructive or if it's trolling. If it's the first, take the criticism. Reflect on it. Bring it with you next time you're in the same scenario. Discuss it in your FC or ask in PF for advice. If it was trolling, ignore it and if kicked, insta- requeue

- Edit- Just read the above post. xD

[Eumona]

It's clear I have been misunderstood and this misunderstanding is likely not going to change (after about a year or so I am still hearing the same advice). I'll continue to figure out my problems using my own methods.

Dealing with people in the way many players proposed will likely make everyone happy but me. (i.e. there isn't much room for creativity using the methods that were proposed).

This game may be old to many but it's not to me. I'll will not be completely robbed of the quality experience players had when this game was launched; where "no one knew anything". It's no coincidence that my missions run smoother with players my own skill level given the caution they show.

I was hopeful that I would get a "new" experience by reaching out...

For now, I'll Solo Play and stick to my research.

Thanks for your participation.

[Cherie]

It's clear I have been misunderstood and this misunderstanding is likely not going to change (after about a year or so I am still hearing the same advice). I'll continue to figure out my problems using my own methods.

Dealing with people in the way many players proposed will likely make everyone happy but me. (i.e. there isn't much room for creativity using the methods that were proposed).

This game may be old to many but it's not to me. I'll will not be completely robbed of the quality experience players had when this game was launched; where "no one knew anything". It's no coincidence that my missions run smoother with players my own skill level given the caution they show.

I was hopeful that I would get a "new" experience by reaching out...

For now, I'll Solo Play and stick to my research.

Thanks for your participation.

Have you ever thought that if everyone is telling you the same thing that maybe it's correct? If you mean to say that when this game launched that things were much different, then I'm sorry to say no they weren't. I was there. It's always been about the same (with dungeons/leveling). If anything there are more new players now more than ever that are starting from scratch. Many of the people starting off *right* at launch were likely enthusiasts of this genre of games. I see more players just playing ffxiv as their first "MMO" game now more than I did in the last 2+ years.

I mean, I get what the point of this thread was. You want some kind of gratification for your actions. I can understand you would want to feel you were in the right. People were being rude and you felt uncomfortable most likely. I'd feel uncomfortable too. My best advice is, if you do a random group like that again and things go bad... just leave the group? That's what I do. If people in a random roulette want to try to start some crap I just leave. It's a 30minute penalty... it's nothing. I go gather/craft...get a snack or whatever. It's not worth me having a heated discussion with a stranger for no reason. You can find another group easily in just a short bit where maybe it would go better.

Having a heated discussion about tactics in a dungeon roulette isn't worth it. If I can clear a dungeon 99.9% of the time with not a word and someone wants to nitpick my playing or something all of a sudden or wants me to do something I'm not comfortable doing...then I can just bail. It's not a big deal to leave at all. It doesn't hurt them either. They get a new person. Maybe the new person is fine with whatever they were saying too and they will be happy. This doesn't happen often but I used to play a lot so of course you get a weird situation eventually. Plan what you want to do before you get into those heated situations. It's a MMO so of course you'll run into other people. Some people of course aren't going to get along. It doesn't make either of you wrong or bad. It happens. It's not even a big deal if handled properly.

[MicahZerrshia]

Indeed this is not a slow paced game and I can be the most nice and understanding person in a party sometimes but I have no patience for someone who is going to stand there between pulls silent and doing nothing from my perspective. Same with mark targets, you need to do it fast as you are moving or not at all, preferably not at all.

If I have to wait over a minute between pulls I would vote kick as well, esp if the tank got snotty with me, which this guy seems to do. Even his posts on here sound, let's just say not worded in a polite manner.

Honestly by level 40 you should be well enough versed in your job to keep moving and not have to stop and think before each and every pull, or just dps until you get a feel for how the game works. I can understand taking a new dungeon slower, but you should still be confident enough in your skill set to run into a group and go for it. Explain your new, if you screw up its more forgivable to wipe then loooooooooong waits.

[XiXiQ]

this is pretty much why you wait an age for tanks in DF. First, a lot of people won't even bother to learn tanking, and second, even after you have, you have no desire to put up with the crap of others deciding they'll pull whatever they want, whenever they want (and with zero regard for how much MP/TP the tank might have at the time, if they are still learning/lower geared, etc). I doubt I'm the only one out there who can tank OK but isn't the slightest bit interested in doing it through DF.

[Adnama18]

Honestly, people usually kick people for telling others what to do or for being really horrible. If you're a tank, just make sure you know how to use your cool downs and are able to get hate. I saw in a comment that you were kicked from Qarn after trying to tell the healer how to heal and then arguing with the dps about the bees. At this point in the game, most people expect final sting to be stunned. So there's a tip for you to avoid that argument. Also, you can mark things with a 1 to try to get the dps to focus it. Just accept that people are learning how to play their class in lower level dungeons, sometimes even in level 60 dungeons x_x. You focus on what you need to do and let them figure it out. You can always ask people in dungeons to let you know if you can do something to help them or if they have any feedback for you. That generally negates any upset if you make a mistake and people, from my experience, are willing to help you figure it out.

[Shurrikhan]

I can't honestly think of any DF situation in which you'd need to use chat to coordinate. It may be necessary to improve party conditions, but coordination in a given moment is well beyond DF.

You're dealing with a mixture of convention and habit. The prior usually leads to the fastest runs with minimal standard error, but those following it may assume party conditions that are not presently accurate. The latter may include Physic-spamming SCHs, no-positional melee, DoT-less DPS, or no CD tanks. Ask for a pre-Adlo, ask that heals be held during the pull itself if not all mobs can be grabbed with a single AoE, ask that DPS follow marks when given. The rest is pretty well out of your direct control, but a surprising amount can be done with quick, neutral comments, rather than discussion, and leading with your back—especially if you at least look like you're the kind of guy who'd turn around when it's needed.

The only real way to prevent a kick is, as you said, to incite a vote—any vote—and chain pull without further upsetting anyone until the thought of kicking you is forgotten. However, if they determined you're the one who started the vote, that becomes very unlikely. As such, it's not a realistic option. Worse, chances are it's a premade that will be kicking you unless you are doing something very wrong (which, to many, can be as little as pulling too hesitantly, not timing your CDs to maximize healer dps where healer AoE filler is poor, or forcing the healer to maintain a health percentage on you because you don't mitigate certain tankbusters when he'd rather be perfecting DoT uptime, but to most will be along the lines of unagreeableness, or a failure to keep up on your GCDs and pulls even while arguing). They can, albeit through abuse, kick you for as little as wanting to give a friend his daily bonus instead, at the last boss. You'll probably find a few threads on that exact subject from over the course of ARR. Against one, you're kind of shit out of luck.