Should I Kick before being Kicked?

[MicahZerrshia]

You need to check yourself first if this thing is happening to you on such a consistent basis that you need to actually create a thread about it. I have been playing this game since beta v1 and although you do run into annoying or aggressive players or those who want things done one way only, that is usually the oddity. I tend to have fun in my pts, chat and have a good time or ppl just stay silent.

So if this is happening to you really often, how are you approaching the situation? Are you maybe reading someone stating a strat they know, that you don't as you said you are new, and you are just being too sensitive and thinking its criticism when its just someone explaining? Esp during a fight when things are kept short cause, well, your in the middle of a fight. Or are you being the jerk of the pt and ppl are responding to you as such?

Bottom line, if you are being kicked or getting in arguments with your teammates more often then not, its likely not everybody else who is the problem...

[Eumona]

To me, my original post is neutral in attitude; not emotional at all.

All my post are not attacking anyone directly; I know how to speak without doing so. However and in my experience, too many players do not do the same. They confuse my neutrality with "impoliteness" and become angered by it and try to put me down. They sometimes rationalize why their behavior was justified but always seem to move on without care. If I were to behave in the same manner, the outcome would be different, I would be kicked on the spot.

I take what I'm told with a grain of salt. Too many players don't care if their information helps. They just want to enjoy themselves.

My thread: How do you feel about being Kicking before being Kicked? I didn't dive into the reasons why I made the post. I didn't believe players would care about that at all.

[Huskell]

Maybe you could change the way you write a little to sound more polite, don't need to much effort to do that.

Also I would not like to see my tank enter a little coma everytime the mobs die to "think" his next move. I'm also a new tank and I've started last month, but I'm always thinking what should I do, what mob should I focus on, where are my party members, where's the next pull? Will it aggro if someone do stupid things on this one (so I can be prepared for that)? What mob should I focus on the next pull that has aoe? Where the DPS are likely to position themselves then? Where should I position myself to make the AOEs only land on me? Will the DPS attack all mobs or will they attack only the one I'm attacking at the time?

You should be always thinking, all the time, not only when it's the time to pull a new pack of mobs.

[Alistaire]

To me, my original post is neutral in attitude; not emotional at all.

All my post are not attacking anyone directly; I know how to speak without doing so. However and in my experience, too many players do not do the same. They confuse my neutrality with "impoliteness" and become angered by it and try to put me down. They sometimes rationalize why their behavior was justified but always seem to move on without care. If I were to behave in the same manner, the outcome would be different, I would be kicked on the spot.

I take what I'm told with a grain of salt. Too many players don't care if their information helps. They just want to enjoy themselves.

My thread: How do you feel about being Kicking before being Kicked? I didn't dive into the reasons why I made the post. I didn't believe players would care about that at all.

In the kind of situation described by the person who was with you, you could go ahead and try to kick, I doubt anyone would agree. And you come off extremely arrogant saying this situation "isn't likely to change". You got clear advice on what to do in that dungeon and the only reason it wouldn't change is if you continue to not heed that advice.

[Eumona]

"Snip"

Players can go at the pace a level demands and not impose their own standards for complete "strangers" to follow (ex: jumping ahead of the tank because their "too slow"). If I'm making missteps, I'll figure it out, not listening to "advice" from someone that doesn't even know how I learn much less take responsibility for the outcome of my actions.

Ultimately, most players would not care whether I do well or not, which was the case of the player that was trying to discipline me by not healing me. Too many players just role play the part of a "philanthropist" because it's fun. They don't care whether or not their help is really helping. Slow and steady is better method to run with then speed and haste. I have and still do believe that low level dungeons is place for players to learn at a comfortable pace.

Bottom Line: I should be able to run low level instances without direct criticism. Let the game be the leader (i.e. making the standards and rules); it's likely going to be more consistently fair and better to follow for a bunch of "strangers".

Side Note: Currently, it seems to be best to look at the rules of the game to understand if I did anything out of turn.

[Chabetsu]

this thread is still going on( *｀ω´)

[Cherie]

I can get how you might be not understood as I am not fully grasping what you are trying to say.

What can I say though? I don't think I've ever been kicked in this game ever(2 past years). If you are getting kicked frequently perhaps maybe you are thinking too much into situations and micromanaging them too much? From my last 2+ years in this game, I can say that even in savage raid pugs and ex primals pugs that I rarely need to talk. If for some reason I do need to discuss strategy then it's easily kept to a few bits of information "I'll tank the ones that spawn on the right"...etc For everything else, like I believe you mentioned just random roulette content(?) I have no need to talk. if someone is doing something wrong and we still can complete the duty anyway I'll just let them do whatever they want. If they are doing something that will prevent duty completion I'll just attempt to kick them and if it doesn't go through, then I'll leave and accept penalty. It's pretty easy. I mean of course if they seem a reasonable person I'd try to talk to them instead of kicking them but we are talking roulette content. If they can't push buttons and not stand in fire... 9 times out of 10 it's because they are doing it on purpose. If I honestly believe they are just new or have a issue understanding then I'll help them naturally.

I do agree that fc's are pretty under utilized in this game as they are a glorified linkshell with a airship (if you are lucky) for the most part.

[Rufus_Beoulve]

All I can say is it sounds like you are part of the Geuno FC groups... They are a buncha drama queens that like starting crap my advice is just leave before they can get off on kicking you.

[Claymore022]

If being kicked is going to be such a certainty when voicing my view point, than shouldn't I incite a kick first?

The only other option I found reliable (but very isolative) to circumvent being kicked is to avoid speaking in chat. Of course, this can cause problems not just from a social standpoint but also from a practical one. It can be challenging to coordinate when not speaking or to defend myself when it looks like I will be kicked, despite not saying a word within missions.

So, the more informed question is: Do you believe in inciting a vote to kick (or leave a company before being kicked) to try to preserve your spot and "time" in missions?

Thank you

Side Note: In my experience in MMO's, you are considered the antagoniser if you don't yield to a players way (for better or worse).

P.S. I'm semi-new and I Tank.

LOL dude i was in that dungeon with you. Remember what i said when we completed the dungeon? Ppl often go about things the wrong way but you can't just assume someone is being rude just for the sake of it. There's often a reason behind it. Now lets look at the situation you were in. It started by you wanting to move at your own pace while the rest of the group wanted to move much quicker between pulls. This by it's self was not an issue since our healer was capable of keeping the dps up if they were tanking the mobs. So there should have been no probs and we should have moved through the dungeon just like that the whole time and completed it and went our separate ways. One thing you need to keep in mind is that on this game, dungeons are ridiculously easy content and can be done even if someone isn't doing there job. So 99% of players go in expecting to just get it done. In this specific case it didn't matter if you tanked or not because the healer could keep the dps up while tanking. Naturally this would make you feel unneeded and so you decided to speak up and say "Can you stop running ahead of me?" to which i replied "then move faster" and you said "ok fine you tank then". After this point I noticed you just sitting there while we killed the frog but then i'd assume once you realized that wee weren't having any issues you decided to try and tank again. But at this point it was already too late, everyone in the instance had already gained a negative opinion of you. After that the healer constantly let you die even when you tried to keep up with us and tank which was bad on his part but that isn't where the problem stems from. The issue is that, when realizing you weren't meeting the expectations of everyone in the instance, you decided to make an attempt at pulling everyone down to your skill level instead of rising up to the rest of the groups skill level. We had amazing dps an our healer was competent enough to keep everyone alive regardless of who's tanking. All we needed at the point was a tank who knew how to pull big and keep aggro and we were set. Do you see where i'm going with this? Yes the ppl in that dungeon where very rude to you and i especially disagree with the fact that the healer stopped healing you when you tried to do your job but the underlying problem here is that you are refusing to better yourself. Do some research here on the forums, look up youtube guides, watch some play throughs of other tanks doing dungeons and try to learn how to play your job to the best of your ability. That is how you will overcome running into problems when doing instanced content. Now you said something about being kicked so I can only assume that you run into these issues a lot since we never tried to kick you the time i played with you but kicking someone before you are kicked is never the answer as it will often result in the dungeon not even getting done at all. How can that feel satisfying to you? Just look to improve and you find far more satisfaction. I've obviously got nothing against you, I just hope this advice will save you from getting on more players bad sides since as a tank, that is REALLY easy to do.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts and there is some incredibly helpful advice. It all boils down to not looking to blame others and looking to see what you yourself can improve. The most obvious improvement is your skill at the game. Make it so that you don't have to say your an "inexperienced tank" on the forums. And also notice that not one person has said to give up tanking. It's a very achievable goal

[Sakuraluna]

LOL dude i was in that dungeon with you. Remember what i said when we completed the dungeon? Ppl often go about things the wrong way but you can't just assume someone is being rude just for the sake of it. There's often a reason behind it. Now lets look at the situation you were in. It started by you wanting to move at your own pace while the rest of the group wanted to move much quicker between pulls. This by it's self was not an issue since our healer was capable of keeping the dps up if they were tanking the mobs.

Wait, I'm confused... Hopefully I'm reading this wrong, and there's more I don't know about since I wasn't there to see any of it, but I'm getting the impression here that the rest of the party tried to force the OP into moving at a faster pace than he was comfortable with, started pulling ahead of him when he didn't change his pace to meet their demands, and expected him to be okay with that? And when he reacted to it, the healer punished him by letting him die numerous times and everybody blames him 100%.

Now, I agree with most of what's been said in this thread that if a player is experiencing kicks this regularly that it's likely the player that is the problem, not the groups. There is also some good advice to OP throughout the thread. But that being said, I also wouldn't expect a tank in the situation I just described to be all unicorns and rainbows about that kind of treatment. This type of situation is one of the reasons I haven't leveled a tank class myself, and likely won't ever use DF on a tank class. People can be very harsh toward inexperienced tanks, and if the above is really how it happened then it's more validating the op's claims of victimization than disputing them.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I will note though that the OP is a level 40 warrior according to the info by his character icon, so if that's his main job then it's more than likely he is still learning.