If you could make impovements to Deep dungeon...

[Teraluna]

The game doesn't cater to just the west, sweetie. They also have to appeal to their own demographics.

Firstly debate the point not the person.
Secondly they can tailor it - they have different activities in different regions.
It's not an unreasonable expectation for content to be suited to geographic cultures.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

1. If they could of put it straight in the duty finder they would have. Clearly there was something on the technical side that prevented them from putting it in the DF to begin with.
2. If you remove the RNG everyone is done in 2-3 runs besides those who want the mount and minions. Making the content die off faster and then you would come back complaining about lack of things to do. Not to mention the RNG helps create some of the challenge, and only needs tweaking not outright removal.
3. Then reduce the time limit from 60 min to 30 min, because if there is no pressure players wont feel challenged. 4 DPS focus firing one mob at a time already reaches the floor boss with plenty of time to spare and thats a save every 10 levels. Solo players are already coming out with strats to let them both level and beat the clock. Make it easier for them to save and they become a lot looser with their strats instead of being challenged to improve their strats.
4. See 3.
5. Map UI is already fine for what the dungeon is, it could use some minor improvements.
6. Character UI is fine.
7. The bosses operate on strict easily identifiable rotations and all use mechanics we have already seen before. The only boss people really need to learn is the current last boss.

You're bitching about RNG, yet the west makes as heavy if not heavier use of RNG then the east. All thanks to psychological studies (done in the west!) which created the predatory mechanics that drive every MMO in existence. One can say the west practically dumped the formula on their heads and the east has been working on refining it.

[Teraluna]

Then they should have taken their time and got it in the DF before introducing it. This rush to launch unfinished things seems more and more prevalent.
Of course you remove the RNG - doesn't mean everything is gifted to the player. The dungeon rewards can be scaled so players have to do multiple runs without going through and getting nothing, and being aware up front of what the run will reward. This would remove the intentional wiping of groups and also the unannounced quitting - as the rewards are uniform.
Increases in the time limit are completely logical as the party numbers reduce.
Save every 5 lvls. If you're against it, then make it optional. Feel free to ignore a save option if you want - but you wouldn't.
Map UI and Character UI are something out of the 80's Amstrad days - need reworking and the ability to scale them.
What about new players to bosses? Your point flies out the window. How do you know what the boss is going to do if you haven't fought it?
If the boss is using similar mechanics to dungeon bosses - then the consequences should also be the same: fail = retry.

If it was only me complaining about rng then fair enough. However it's not.
The result of rng in this dungeon is filling multiple posts with intentional wiping, unannounced quitting, people asking to be kicked as they've not got anything.
RNG needs removing, and not only from PotD.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

A new player coming in learns from basic OW mobs while questing not to stand in the aoe on the ground. Which constitutes the entirety of the first boss. The 2nd boss introduces Adds. The 3rd boss is the one that introduces that some aoes are not given a warning marker and need to be figured out, they can look to people who have run the dungeon before on what to do. Though the AoE in question in general has not proven to be bad enough to cause wipes (from what I have seen). The 4th boss shows its a combination of the 2nd and 3rd boss. The last boss introduces LoS attacks, but is otherwise a combination of the previous bosses before it.

Then you got people like me who are willing to toss information at those new if they got questions about a boss. It also helps that guides are popping up on wikis and youtube explaining the boss mechanics that new players can be directed to. The entire japanese playerbase has built itself around helping each other out to learn these kinds of things. Maybe we ought to try emulating that?

Now the problem is you want to remove all RNG. This would mean no traps, no chests, no special mobs, no different floor layouts, no different compositions besides 1 tank 1 healer 2 DPS, because all of those are decided by RNG. In other words it would be a standard dungeon that everyone complains is boring and wanted a change from. Which is in fact one of the most complained about things if you have been paying attention to pre 3.35 threads.

That is what it means to remove RNG from Palace of the Dead. And it quite literally means exactly what I said earlier: the content dies once everyone has finished getting the rewards from it.

You also want to make it uniformly easier, for both parties and solo. More saving more time so that you can farm levels up and be able to ignore a boss's mechanics more easily and if that fails try again.

People only complain about specific instances of RNG related to silver chests, and those instances of RNG are going to be tuned. SE also already said they are putting in a guaranteed upgrade at the floor 50 boss which should help with the intentional wiping/unannounced quitting/people asking to be kicked problem.

We as a community need to also help curb this problem by spreading "Only the exit portal after the boss saves progress! Use the leave command to avoid saving if you did not get an upgrade!" Among the populace. This will also help curb the problem as it spreads farther. Since people apparently do not read the god damn exit portal text.

The Map UI and Character UI are both something aimed at nostalgia given what palace of the dead is based off of, games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, the early 16 bit final fantasy games. Its aimed at long time fans of the series like the rest of the game is. Needs some modifications (like the scaling) but does not need a rework.

[Xelanar]

We as a community need to also help curb this problem by spreading "Only the exit portal after the boss saves progress! Use the leave command to avoid saving if you did not get an upgrade!" Among the populace. This will also help curb the problem as it spreads farther. Since people apparently do not read the god damn exit portal text.

I tried that one out. It DID however save my progress when I used the leave button =/. Forcing a disconect after a boss fight and restarting the game after 4-5 minutes is supposed to work though, because the game just teleports you ouf of the dungeon and skips the saving portion. I have not tested that though. But I will, as soon as my upgrades decide to blow up again all the time ^_^.

[AlphaFox]

I am fine with RNG, it helps keep people coming back but I do feel the % chances need to be tweaked some.

[DamnCats]

1) Whoever thought of exploding silver chests should be taken out back and shot.
2) No more exploding silver chests.

It's seriously frustrating.

[AsteriaStarfall]

My change,

How about a wipe doesn't mean wasting 30-40 minutes of your life getting NOTHING, not even XP for your low level class. Yeah i love signing up for things where i put time and effort in and get nothing out of it. That right there is my only complain against deep dungeon. Would i rather queue for deep dungeon and waste 30-40 minutes going through all the floors with the possibility of wiping, or spend that same time in a regular dungeon where i am guaranteed to get rewards....hmmmmm

Listen i don't know what developer for what game company decided that RNG should be the basis of everything in a game instead of rewarding everyone for the same amount of time and effort put forth, but that person i hate with passion and is the single most cause of most complaints in MMO's. It's so disheartening that with most games two people can be running a certain type of content, but yet one finishes sooner because of better RNG, and the other spends countless hours more playing and yet doesn't receive a reward.

You can make it where RNG is a bonus, but not the cause of failure.

I'll give an example with relic weapons. Atmas (or crystals, or whatever the next random drop thing is) RNG should be a bonus, such as you are 100% guaranteed to get the resulting item after lets say 20 fate kills, however RNG might bless you by giving it to you sooner. There should always be a safety net because if you get bad RNG, you get to suffer even though you are putting more time and effort in.

[Xelanar]

If it was only me complaining about rng then fair enough. However it's not.
The result of rng in this dungeon is filling multiple posts with intentional wiping, unannounced quitting, people asking to be kicked as they've not got anything.
RNG needs removing, and not only from PotD.

Correct. However, people are complaining about the way RNG was implemented in the palace. Randomness is not a bad thing in games, if you can do it right. The number of games without any random factors, be it digital or on boards/cards, is relatively small, yet we play them and still have lots of fun!

You can make it where RNG is a bonus, but not the cause of failure.

I'll give an example with relic weapons. Atmas (or crystals, or whatever the next random drop thing is) RNG should be a bonus, such as you are 100% guaranteed to get the resulting item after lets say 20 fate kills, however RNG might bless you by giving it to you sooner. There should always be a safety net because if you get bad RNG, you get to suffer even though you are putting more time and effort in.

And THIS is the reason for it. If done correctly - or should I rather say, if done with the idea of keeping frustration levels low? - RNG does not ruin but rather complement a game. Those silver chests we see on our maps? They should make us feel excited, because they are what we ultimately are looking for. Instead I'm seeing myself casting Aspected Benefic on whoever dares to aproach them, because I EXPECT them to explode. I'm actually surprised if an upgrade pops out, even though it should be the other way around, right? Explosions occuring too often and being unpreventable turn out to be unfun, because they destroy the very reason we run the dungeon in the first place.

There are tons of ways to keep randomness on those chests, without making it FEEL frustrating.

1. A triggered trap does not prevent an upgrade. Instead the triggering player is debuffed with something annoying(and by that I mean undispellably annoying ^_^). Make it carry the same impact a lost upgrade has on us. Something that really needs our attention.
2. Increase upgrades required from 30 to... whatever makes sense for your formulas, and make every chest hand out TWO upgrade points by default. Traps reduce the amount received by 1. On average it would be the same as it is now - but since our minds are pretty easy to trick, getting one upgrade on a trap and requiring 60 is OF COURSE better than receiving none on a trap and requiring 30. Yes, we're THAT easily influenced >.<.
3. Trap removing pomanders also remove those pesky trapped silver chests. NO, they won't make those chests accessible, but instead remove them entirely. Also the revealing pomander could mark exploding chests with an effect(and show them on the map too!).
4. Add a really short minigame to the chest's traps. When the trap triggers you get 10 seconds to disarm it. Of course your group will hate you for failing, and complaints about it will definitely rise, so make the minigame pop up for everyone, as soon as they get out of combat.

Anything that makes silver chests feel less aggravating ^_^.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

here are my suggestions:

1) Chests do not explode, but give you a pomander that summons a Gelmorran Spirit that if you do what it asks grants a guaranteed upgrade, if you do not do what he asks he either takes a random pomander from you, summons a Mimic King Mini-boss (that gives a guaranteed upgrade on death), or curses a random chest to be a mimic.
2) Chests ignore arm/armor at the upgrade cap.