I am disappointed with Deep Dungeon

[Thayos]

As I have said in another thread: Did whole thing twice. Kill, kill, kill, repeat. At least in Diadem you could be watching TV during that (or mind your own business).

Sounds like it's better than Diadem then.

[Hyrist]

Funny, as this wound up on the "Make" side of Make or break. And honestly, SE should have implmented this sooner.

SE has this bad habit of releasing its catch-up mechanics late in their patch cycle, making content valid for 'casuals' (Read: anyone with hobbies OTHER than FFXIV exclusively.) all of two and a half months before they raise the ilvl again and make it difficult. Anyone who took a break form the game for whatever reason, are forced to be severely behind and possibly locked out of even story content due to the constant increases. The fact that this can be easily completed? Saves me about a month's worth of work just to be able to start learning content I've fallen behind on.

Are floors 1-50 simple? Absolutely. That makes sense seeming they're teaching new players the basic mechanics of 60 levels of a class in five hours of gameplay. That has to be simple in order for them to have the leeway to start grasping something that normally is accompanied by several hours of leveling time and practice. Or did we forget that this was supposes to appeal to everyone, not just the endgamers?

Floors above 50 I expect to get more complex, as it will be past the initial learning curve. But this does what needed to be done - establish a base of what honestly is a fun concept. The execution isn't bad, it's just the difficulty of it is low, and more objectives would add to the depth of the gameplay.

I walked in there expecting a gameplay frame for them to build off of, and I wasn't disappointed. This is far better than what Diadem was/is and I hope they invest the time to improve upon it.

[WinterLuna]

snip

It's not just about the difficulty for me, though. I completely understand this isn't supposed to appeal to end gamers only. However, it is nothing more than a regular dungeon when you look at the core of it.

The poms are okay but we were eventually using them just for the sake of it, we didn't need them. There were no puzzles, nothing to make us think, just mindlessly spamming mobs and dealing with the occasional debuff. After doing thirty or even twenty floors would be enough for a new player to get the grasp of things.

I was just expecting some more depth I guess. I hope the next few floors improve a little on this basis.

[Hyrist]

It's not just about the difficulty for me, though. I completely understand this isn't supposed to appeal to end gamers only. However, it is nothing more than a regular dungeon when you look at the core of it.

The poms are okay but we were eventually using them just for the sake of it, we didn't need them. There were no puzzles, nothing to make us think, just mindlessly spamming mobs and dealing with the occasional debuff. After doing thirty or even twenty floors would be enough for a new player to get the grasp of things.

I was just expecting some more depth I guess. I hope the next few floors improve a little on this basis.

Well, we're not that deep into the Deep Dungeon yet. But that weapon, yes, that's actually something that I need. Getting a group to carry me into an EX fight is dumb. Spending the month it's going to take to get me gear relevant enough to meaingfully contribute to an ex fight is even dumber.

My options now as someone returning from a breaks is spamming Wiping City of Salt in hopes for a clear, and a drop that's relevant. Grinding Tomes on dungeons that are even more monotonous than Deep Dungeon (at least Deep Dungeon is quick and simple.) And/Or get lucky with drops in Midas for items that are even less effective. And that's just armor.

Weapons were, up until this point, glass ceilings, hidden behind what was, at the start of 3.3, seven weeks of Midas as well as a large sum of tomestones. Now it's extreme Primals/Niddhog being the fastest, but good luck getting a group to let you in there with a 210 weapon (again, begging for a carry.) The alternative before this was a Relic, which required as much work as most of the above combined.

None of that is very enticing, so I am glad for this option. Starting out with a weapon that's decent, and working to fill out the rest. I can't help but feel SE got it backwards, ordering wise though. Make relevant gearing easy to get (instead of artificially drawing it out for several weeks) then work on content with depth to accessorize. It constantly feels like there's no solid foundation to move from, up until this patch, which is way late in the cycle.

[Lendle]

Some part of me would really like to be that fly on the wall at SE's meeting room right now.

[Reinha]

It's considerably harder when doing it solo. Have you tried it?

[Vantol]

It's considerably harder when doing it solo. Have you tried it?

What's the difference? There is no:
1. Interaction with environment.
2. Different combat objectives.
3. None combat objectives.
4. Puzzles.
5. Different ways to complete floor.
6. Different paths to room X.

SE just managed to hit a bottom of creativity.

[VargasVermillion]

What's the difference? There is no:
1. Interaction with environment.
2. Different combat objectives.
3. None combat objectives.
4. Puzzles.
5. Different ways to complete floor.
6. Different paths to room X.

SE just managed to hit a bottom of creativity.

SE could be more creative but it would require making content harder for people to do and as shown time and time again the majority of the player base doesn't like having to put actual effort into combat or learning new mechanics.

[Zojha]

SE could be more creative but it would require making content harder for people to do [...]

No, I don't think so.

Creative content isn't necessarily difficult content. Idle games like cookie clicker were a creative idea at the time, but let's not kid ourselves thinking a game that plays itself is hard. Difficulty is all about clarity and room for error. Take the broom quests: They're harder than the average quest, but only because they don't give you clear instructions. If they did, for example via quest marker, they'd be as easy as any other. And once you know what to do...it all comes down to whether you can stay within the tolerance threshhold of failure. A telegraph for an AoE is a very clear sign that bad things are about to happen. So all that remains is walking out of it. And depending on how much time you have for that, it's either very easy or very hard.

[VargasVermillion]

No, I don't think so.

Creative content isn't necessarily difficult content.

You're right about creative not meaning hard but if SE are to add interesting mechanics to trash, having more traps and the like then it means players need to actually do more than spam aoes, do thier standard combos etc. etc. which the majority don't like as shown every time SE try to think of something interesting.