Selling clears maybe within the rules of the game - but is it within the spirit?

[Teraluna]

A discussion took place on my server yesterday re selling clears - started by someone offering them in general chat.

After some protests in response, several people assured that this had been ok'd by SE, and I can understand from a business perspective why they'd accept it.
- someone who's paid for the clears is of course likely to stick with the game after forking out their cash.

Now this appears to satisfy both parties, those who are selling and those who are buying - but to me it still feels a bit strange and can possibly throw a shadow over achievements.

After watching the discussion unfold on chat I was left with this: The next time I see someone with a nice mount, title, gear etc
- I'd wonder did they play well for this or just buy it through clear selling groups?

Each to his own I guess - thoughts?

[AskaRay]

I mean. It wouldn't be against the rules.

But I mean what's the point? There's no fun in buying a clear especially nowadays when none of the primals are connected (no need to beat one EX to get access to another like in ARR) and why buy a clear for Savage? To say you did it? Talk about weak.

[revonine]

There's very much a lucrative market for this on my server too. I do not take part in it, but I know people that make serious bank off it.

Now I can honestly understand a frustrated person who's quite capable of clearing an encounter perfectly but just cannot get 7 other competent people to do it with, or does not want to spend the hours combing through PF parties for the clear. They fork over the gil just so he/she can finally have access to farming parties.

The next time I see someone with a nice mount, title, gear etc
- I'd wonder did they play well for this or just buy it through clear selling groups?

Proof is in the pudding I guess. The quality of random "farm" parties for an encounter is often very poor and it does make you wonder. I give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes as we are human and make mistakes and don't rage at someone immediately after one wipe. But sometimes......

[Snugglebutt]

It's not against the rules but it is frowned upon by some people.

Such reasons given like the people who get carried in such a way will probably not be able to manage later on if they could not manage prior to buying the clear. It undermines the whole "keep the newbies out of PF farm parties" brigade, the vote kick the non-achievement/first timers types who think just because someone has the clear it means they will be more capable of clearing than the first timer who might have spent hours of watching videos and reading guides on that raid, dungeon or trial...while someone else who bought his/her clear might have merely paid, entered and potentially went afk till the fight was over giving them the achievement.

There is also the argument about undermining the accomplishments of the people who actually worked hard for it when others could just pay for it. Personally I do not care for the type of people who hold being a first timer against someone so do not mind the fact their agenda of exclusion is undermined by clear buyers. I think everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves even in farm parties which even if have a clear under their belt it does not always make them more competent and focused. I never buy clears myself as I do not wish to skip such content even if it remains undone for months I will eventually get around to clearing it without buying a clear.

In regards to the undermining of the accomplishments aspect, it's just their ego's impacted and there are far too many over-inflated egos in this game already such as raid elitists. When I see someone with like a top tier or hard to get item that could be obtained through a raid or ex trial, I do not think "did they buy it or earn it"...in fact I do not care much about whether they earned it or bought it and I just think "okay where is it from" and "do I want to earn it myself" by doing it normally (not paying for clears or being carried) essentially I will not pay gil to clear any dungeon, raid or trial personally.

[randysquirrel]

imo the question should be "is buying clears in the spirit of the game?"

[Rufalus]

I wasn't a big mmo player before this game so I was surprised that players selling themselves is a thing. Somehow I just imagined an idealised community where people gave up their time to help others without asking for payment. I'm not a fan of it, but it doesn't break the game if that's how people like to play it. The only thing that upsets me is people breaking the game with third-party tools to get an unfair advantage of any kind.

[Kitano123]

A discussion took place on my server yesterday re selling clears - started by someone offering them in general chat.
[snip]
After watching the discussion unfold on chat I was left with this: The next time I see someone with a nice mount, title, gear etc
- I'd wonder did they play well for this or just buy it through clear selling groups?

Each to his own I guess - thoughts?

I'd imagine theirs more people being carried by their friends/FC than buying clears. Other than gil changing hands how is that any different? Mercenaries for hire is also a common theme in FF games so in that respect i'd say it was perfectly within the spirit of the game.

There is also the argument about undermining the accomplishments of the people who actually worked hard for it when others could just pay for it. Personally I do not care for the type of people who hold being a first timer against someone so do not mind the fact their agenda of exclusion is undermined by clear buyers

Having cleared the fight is the only metric we have for judging whether someone is good enough before you see them in action. If you had you're way farm partys wouldn't exist as no ones going to join a farm group that has multiple first timers in it.

I wasn't a big mmo player before this game so I was surprised that players selling themselves is a thing. Somehow I just imagined an idealised community where people gave up their time to help others without asking for payment. I'm not a fan of it, but it doesn't break the game if that's how people like to play it. The only thing that upsets me is people breaking the game with third-party tools to get an unfair advantage of any kind.

People who sell runs also help their friends/fc mates for free as well, it isn't an either/or situation. A community is something you have to work to be a part off, you shouldn't expect free hand outs.

[CookieMonsta]

I find the most common things ppl buy carries for are Ex Primals and usually turn 1 or 2 of Alex Savage. You stick out like a sore thumb and are asking to be blacklisted if you claim to clear the 2nd last or final turns of Savage because most of the legitimately cleared people know each other. If clients just want a one off clear, most of the raiding community doesn't really care (aside from the internal chuckles) but if these same people then try to join statics and such, it matters a great deal.

[Darkshade]

yeah we need those clear sales money to buy
oh wait
almost nothing

if there was actually stuff worth buying it might be a different story

[Tint]

selling clears is one of the bigger things that keep the RMT alive. where do you think got most of the people who buy clears their money? sure, there are some rich crafters, but most people will have bought the gil, like they bought the kill...

and because the kill sellers are feeding the RMT i am against the whole kill selling story.