Selling clears maybe within the rules of the game - but is it within the spirit?

[KitingGenbu]

Isn't buying a clear and getting carried buy a FC/LS the same thing?

[Thayos]

Isn't buying a clear and getting carried buy a FC/LS the same thing?

I don't think so; at its core, the motivations are different. Getting help from FC mates is definitely more within the spirit of cooperative gameplay.

That said, I don't think most people want to be carried. When my FC has helped me get clears, I've done what I can to research the fight and practice to the best of my ability. Because of that, I was able to contribute when getting my clears, which I'm sure is different than the norm in purchased clears.

Also, people who help each other within FCs tend to build up good will that promotes further helpful behavior within those FCs. People who get helped by friends are more likely to return favors and be more helpful later on. Also, there is certainly a dynamic of teaching/learning that goes on in LS/FC groups that wouldn't logically happen in purchased clear groups.

Purchased clears don't really help build the community, is what I'm getting at.

[vp_cmc]

I don't think so; at its core, the motivations are different.

If you ask your FC to help you with, for example, titan ex (unsync), it will be:
1. You need to create a party, of 4-8 people (if you pay, sellers create party for you)
2. You may stay alive during the fight (if you pay, sometimes sellers don't mind you being alive, if it can't wipe them)
3. If you die, or especially, fall from platform, group will just clear without you. They won't jump from platform at restart just for the sake of your learning (if you pay.. same)

In theory, you can pay 7 people to teach you the fight, but I'm afraid it will be much more expensive (like in real life, individual lessons are quite expensive too)

About community: people who can create a group, they have no reason to buy clears. People, who don't do this and prefer to buy a clear, in the case if clears are forbidden, they just won't do that trial\raid and probably will just leave the game. So I don't really see how this affects community.

[Judge_Xero]

Hmm.... would it be wrong to charge Gil in order to train people how to play as opposed to just carrying them through content?

[Thayos]

Hmm.... would it be wrong to charge Gil in order to train people how to play as opposed to just carrying them through content?

The problem is it's not as simple as teaching people how to play; otherwise, "good" players would just be one-shotting raids as they came out.

This game's difficult content is only hard because it's so heavily scripted with punishing mechanics. It's more about trial/error and memorization than it is about "learning to play" and simply being reactive.

However, if you offered a service that actually trained people to beat specific encounters, then that would actually be pretty sweet. One of the biggest barriers to learning is finding seven other people who can help you make progress to learn later stages, and a service like what you've proposed would immediately address that.

[Vivi_Bushido]

It shouldn't be frowned on at all.

As long as the player didn't summit into purchasing gil via RMT, it shouldn't be a problem. It still takes time, skill, and effort to make money. Especially to meet the ridiculous demands of some sellers.

Say someone never did any hardcore content but they're hardcore crafters. Maybe they don't enjoy raiding but they want the items. Did they still not earn the items by finding a roundabout way to acquire them through making money? They avoided the headaches of static, learning optimal dps rotations and avoided having to gear themselves. They worked for their money and used their time wisely. Some call them lazy but really they're genius. After all. Glamour is the real endgame and gil is not useful for anything else.

[Kaeoni]

I enjoy beating video games. It defeats the purpose to pay someone to beat something for you. The challenge was set for you. Not for you to pay someone else to do it for you. Though In doing so you inadvertently beat it anyways. And that's technically just another way to beat it. So now we're stuck in a spiral of mischief! haha


I think the fundamental answer lies in just about any game, whether it be single player or multiplayer. Would you Pay someone to beat the final boss, or extra bosses on... Pick a game. Catherine for example. For these types of games the answer is probably going to be a unanimous "No". And that's fundamentally your answer.

That being said circumstances are different in an MMO. You can come across a plethora of different scenarios I won't go over here for the sake of the length of this post, which lead back to the reason you're unable to do said piece of content regardless of it being you or the people around you. So though I don't subscribe to the idea of paying for a group to carry me through a piece of content. I can understand why someone would pay for it. And it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

That also being said, I did pay to get my first Titan Hard clear for my Bow way back when. But I didn't know very many people back then, and every attempt I made resulted in failure. It felt sorta cheap and like I got ripped off cuz I knew I could do it, but MMOs come with other kinds of challenges.
Ones single players don't have. That doesn't make one superior to the other. It's just different is all.

I'd rather urge a player to overcome this problem through meeting people and forming relationships with other players, over paying for wins. It's more fun and it's how MMOs are suppose to be played. If you weren't meant to play with other players, why are all the dungeons and stuff 4-24 man/woman content?

Ultimately it's your choice though. Your business isn't my business, and I don't care either way since it doesn't affect me.

[Yeol]

To be honest I understand why some people buy their clears but .. you can always tell those people from those who actually got the kill by learning and training.
I'm pretty sure most of you are already familiar with lots of players on your servers, those who join farm parties and actually are good.

For example:
I set a PF up with my healer friend.
<another healer joins>

My friend will have 3 reactions:
1: This healer is good i've seen him in other farm parties.
2: Never played with him, lets see how it goes.
3: BAD!! BAD healer!!! idk how he killed it!! DISBAND OR KICK!!

Some buy the kill because they are not lucky with PF. That player probably saw the last 10% of the fight but others kept screwing him over and over. He doesn't belong to a static or have a group of friends or FC to help him. And no one will accept "I've seen him at 1% can I join?" excuse so he has to lift the bonus off.

[starLivitation]

My opiniun, selling clears does serve a purpose, i have to admit i bought a clear for for my first titan hm kill, as i was gated to enter coil, and i was a noob paladin just started the game, could not get any party willing to let me experiment or practice the fight and i wanted to see what is coil. i ended up selling titan hm myself at some point along with other primals for cheap prices and sometimes someone needed to get his relic done quickly and didnt want to wait a long time to find a decent party. the sells were really cheap back then about 100k per kill or so.

What i am against however, at some point this market has changed, there is a lot of greed on part of the sellers and the sale prices became very high for some instances, such as turn 9 when it was a thing, going upto 80m or 90m millions per a kill at some point. my issue with such is a thing is that, when u sell at that prices u draw in gill sellers and buyers into the game.

the 2nd thing, which i noticed as well, in the recent gordias and midas savage era, due to the heavy dps checks in some of these fights, it was no longer possible to carry people while they are dead, and some groups are asking the seller to give them their logoin details to complete the fight for him. this is definalty not acceptable, and very silly to be honest.

i hate gill sellers and gill buyers and i think they ruin the game some what, as well as the market board, i wish SE would do some thing to stop them.

[CGMidlander]

There's nothing wrong with getting paid for doing a service. It takes time to organize carry parties and if you consider how the payment is divided among 7 other people, the compensation isn't even that high from most customers, who usually buy just one run of something.