Some odd subjects I might need to talk to an acquaintance about...

[Ninster]

A few months ago I got a friend of mine that enjoys single-player RPGs and his ex-WoW vet girlfriend to subscribe to FFXIV. And not too long ago, they figured out the girlfriend's cousin (also a WoW vet) was playing and now we're all playing together.

I'm enjoying teaching my friend about the different jobs he's interested in as well as his girlfriend, although I can only really teach from experience, hoping that I'm not actually giving them bad advice.

But the cousin is a bit different. He is, probably a prime example of an ego-trip DPS, both good and bad. It's great that he's always looking to improve his damage, but he's also been open about asking tanks to mass pull in LEVELING dungeons, which I'm sure has not always played out well with said tanks (and healers). Amusingly enough, he doesn't have Bard leveled enough to get Quelling Strikes, so that's another problem. Then there's the odd case of what happened just a few minutes ago: asking me to meld materia to one of his weapons. I'm more than happy to help, but given that said weapon is the ilvl 115 gun, I'm questioning just how much use he'll get off of capping the crit on something that (hopefully) he'll replace within a level or two.

I'd be content to stay quiet and let him figure out eventually what works well, but my friend's decided for us to run together as a premade. For dungeons, that'd put me as a tank or healer, so I'll constantly have to worry about him either way.

So, my question, I suppose, is how do I go about setting things straight, or is any of this an issue enough to cause trouble later?

[Billeffingmurray]

Just send him to the df. Believe me someone will knock him down a few pegs.

[randysquirrel]

Mass pulling in low level dungeons can sometimes be a bit difficult, simply because half the time people don't have the aoe, or quick heals needed to keep up, regardless of skill level. I wouldn't really try and pull too much if in DF, but if you are premade and sort of know each other's styles, its usually ok. imo you're better to go with one caster for aoe, to chip down all the mobs equally, and one ST role to bring down each mob one at a time, so the incoming damage is manageable.

re the cousin, I'd try and explain of course you don't mind doing this melding for him etc, but explain he'd actually be better just holding out for a bit. if he still wants to go ahead, so be it, his loss.

one thing you could try... is ask him to level a healer/tank, and swap round for a bit... nothing gives better perspective of the difficulties other roles face than having played them yourself, and maybe if he sees how unfun it is when everything just goes to sh*t every pull, he will understand why going ham as a dps, is fun for that dps, but not so much for everyone else . its also a bit of experience thing... I know I used to think how awesome I was when "hey no one can even hold hate off me, I must be doing soooo much dps!"... err no, if tanks not holding hate, either you/he/both are doing something wrong

[Claymore022]

So, my question, I suppose, is how do I go about setting things straight, or is any of this an issue enough to cause trouble later?

Look man there's no issue here. If he wants to put materia in his gun then let him, trust me it's not going to hurt him in anyway nor will it have a negative effect on his ability to play. If he wants you to pull big in a dungeon then just pull big. If it doesn't work out then there you go, he'll see first hand that it doesn't work. If he tries asking in the DF then either the tank will try to pull big and it may or may not go well or the tank won't pull big. Either way there is no issue here what so ever. It's good that he is conscious of his dps, that right there pretty much proves he already has the capacity to be better than 70% of the player base. As he levels and gains more experiences with dungeons and other players he'll learn more about what he can and can't do and maybe he'll look up guides on his job and become a good player. Point is there is literally no issue here lol. Now if he starts raging at you guys because you won't pull big then that's another discussion.

[Rongway]

In re: pulling big.
As long as everyone is wearing current gear and comfortable with his ability set (everyone, but especially the healer, whose role difficulty will be disproportionately higher compared to everyone else), pulling big in DR:50 and the 51+ leveling dungeons should be fine. It's the pre-50 leveling dungeons that pose huge problems (vuln.down cheesing excepted) for mass pulls, in part because people don't have their full panoply (in particular, tanks' invincibility cooldowns and healers' oh shit cooldowns) and in part because stats' growth curves are so much shallower pre-50.

In re: a DD insisting that the tank pull bigger
There are a few ways to handle this, one of them being the communal death wish method in Claymore022's post. I have to wonder, though, when he insists on bigger pulls, is it with the drooly-hangy-tongued expression of a puppy sticking his head out the window, excited for the ride; something more akin to the evil grin of a horror movie clown; or the subvocal rage of a Sith Lord who just found out his babymomma died? If the answer is car puppy, then granting the death wish and failing won't be a big deal. If he's more like one of the other two options, you might just have to insist that the order of who gets to dictate pull size is (1) healer (2) tank, and if he wants to force larger pulls, he can side level a tank or healer in DF and see first hand the practicality/impracticality of big pulls in different duties and with different party compositions.

[Shurrikhan]

Tell him to get his own materia, then point him towards the Materia Melder NPC standing right next to the Ishgard marketboard.

Silent point: feel free to twink, but don't inconvenience others with trifles.

[Anienai]

So, my question, I suppose, is how do I go about setting things straight, or is any of this an issue enough to cause trouble later?

Simple solution for you and your friend's gogo mentality/ego. Tell him to level:

GLD to 34 for provoke and awareness
PUG to 15 internal release iirc
MAR to 30
Unlock GREATNESS (WARRIOR)

He can pull the whole instance and put up great numbers.

Best of both worlds.

[Id_Slayer]

Claymore22 nailed it. So the guy knows what he wants. If he's got the materia and doesn't mind putting it in a weapon of his choice, who cares? Why would you be concerned about it? If you are, will it negatively impact you in some way if that materia gets put onto that 115 gun? You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. If you have a legitimate concern, man up and make it a conversation. -not an arguement-. Don't keep going until you have the last word...As far as pulling goes, most of the time, same thought process, it's probably not super ideal for the tank to do big pulls on every dungeon out there. Some dungeons aren't designed for it and some level ranges just don't work well with certain tank or healer combos. If you're going to end up being the tank or healer in that process, the crux to that plan is to be the tank, and get good. If you aren't sure you can do that, then get good at being a healer.

If you just aren't at the same level of intensity that he is then so what? Do your best, have conversations OUTSIDE of dungeon runs or fights, so you're not in the heat of the moment, about the flaws or what could have been done differently/better. If he can't give you constructive feedback then he isn't skilled enough to be making those intense demands. It's like a Sub Captain telling his chief engineer that he needs 130% engine power. The captain doesn't need to know what knobs and valves need to be adjusted or what the tolerances are of the materials or how long the engine can safely run at that level, but he needs to know enough to sanity check his request to see if it's even possible. If your buddy doesn't even know if his demands are possible or if they've been done before and how it's done, then he doesn't have solid ground to stand on. And if he does, then great, he can tell you how to do it.

As a side note, thats also why I disagree with the mentor program being an officially sanctioned thing- a mentor can be a mentor and only actually know how to play one job in and out and for the other jobs only be able to spout off what you already learn from tooltip reading on abilities...alas there's no way to formally prove/sanction advanced player meta theory on how jobs should be played to mesh well with other players and how much of that knowledge a given mentor knows, except maybe a mentor rating system where others can rate a mentor on their knowledge on various roles or classes. *shrug* Yes I can tell you how to play any dungeon or fight in the game except a7s and a8s off the top of my head, and I can tell you how the mechanics work and how your job -MIGHT- handle them, and could thus fairly ask for a tank to pull en masse in a dungeon, because I've been through all of them and I've tanked -almost- all of them first hand. If I didn't walk 500 miles in the tank's shoes then I wouldn't feel comfortable demanding the same 500 miles out of another tank. That's me, though. I'm sure most people feel the same.

[Maero]

There is no harm in trying a mass pull, it does however seem that you are all fairly new to FFXIV, at low level you do not get much abilities and for mass pulls especially Bard, well he will see for himself...
What is your other dps of the group if i may ask?
Later dungeons most players actually do always massive pull, it is hit and miss with tanks though in duty finder
If you will be the tank and get tired of him, let him die to teach him a lesson
Levels bellow 50 materia melds are really not at all needed, but no harm done either

Slight edit: You can all also do Palace of the Dead, I am not 100% sure if Heavansward is needed or not for it though.
The dungeon itself allows you to level all the way up so you can see all the actions/abilities your class gets without having had the job leveled. This to me would be a far greater teaching tool then say fate grinding like many players “learn” from

[Judge_Xero]

Well if he is the most skilled player in your group let him be your guiding light. The melds etc are whatever if he has the Gil, but as a group it is better to move forward and grow in skill together.

If he wants big pulls or a challenge:
Tank - learn to hold hate and take a beating
Healer - learn to manage heals and help dps so stuff dies faster
Other DPS - DPS and don't get killed

If you need updated gear get it. Always have the best tank weapon available.

Even while leveling you should practice doing things the right way.