Summoner revamp

[Alaltus]

Snip

So the dev team lacked the imagination to make 6 Egis relevant without the elemental wheel?

Garuda- ranged piercing damage + piercing resist down
Ifrit- melee slashing damage + slashing resist down
Titan- melee blunt damage + blunt resist down
Ramuh- ranged blunt damage + magic resist down
Shiva- ranged slashing damage + evasion down
Leviathan- melee piercing damage + a strong dot.

Resist reductions already exist in the game so none of these would break the game. The choice of which Egi would mostly come down to whatever the party make up was and the summons pair up when in parties with multiple SMN. Thats just from 30 minutes of thinking on this, SE are more capable than i. Loldrg isn't an issue because the requirements for summoning aren't high in the first place.

The issue is that SE wants to run a skeleton crew on this game to make extra money/to focus on XV and a real SMN would require more development. Also Sch is an affliction mage with heals so they had to dump affliction spells on ACN and by extension SMN neither of which reference these spells in their lore; an experiment SE already admitted was a mistake.

[Duelle]

So the dev team lacked the imagination to make 6 Egis relevant without the elemental wheel?

one approach

Garuda-Egi - Caster pet.
Titan-Egi - Tank pet.
Ifrit-Egi - Melee pet.
Shiva-Egi - CC pet.
Leviathan-Egi - Anti-caster pet.
Ramuh-Egi - Damage aura/AoE pet.

[Remus]

Oh man its the SMN topic again... all i will say is there isn't much point to adding more egis the way the game is designed simple as just deal. I am happy with Dreadwyrm Trance and i hope they continue in this direction. Good job SE. Also i just want to say a CC pet would be the most useless pet in the game even lower than Titan. Most of the time your fighting bosses and they are immune to it and enemies don't even last long enough for CC so pointless egi is pointless. AoE pet? Garuda already makes me AoE more effectively with Enkindle and Contagion make my DoTs last longer after Bane so I don't see much point in the AoE pet.

Also Alatus if you made pets lower resistances you should already know these don't stack look at NIN and WAR. In 24 man all those resistances will basically be useless. Shiva would be terrible most people meet accuracy cap so there isn't really a need to lower Evasion. So many classes already do all those things so if pets did that it would make them even worse. Some of the ideas im seeing are just terrible and im kinda glad SE did not take some of these suggestions lol. Most of the ideas im seeing i'm just face palming so hard it hurts.

Anyway im out this thread gave a good laugh o/

[Alaltus]

Also Alatus if you made pets lower resistances you should already know these don't stack look at NIN and WAR. In 24 man all those resistances will basically be useless. Shiva would be terrible most people meet accuracy cap so there isn't really a need to lower Evasion. So many classes already do all those things so if pets did that it would make them even worse. Some of the ideas im seeing are just terrible and im kinda glad SE did not take some of these suggestions lol. Most of the ideas im seeing i'm just face palming so hard it hurts

And multiple NIN WAR are useless now? The point i was making was from the perspective of 2.0 release SE could have easily found another way to differentiate the summons other than an elemental wheel. At the very least Titan and Ifrit would be alot more relevant than they are now and they could have made summon resist downs a seperate debuff from NIN and WAR and only not stack with itself. Afterall you have the choice of multple egis, not just one.

[Leigaon]

Honest it's my opinion that dreadwyrm trance is the closest you can get to classic ff summoning(in which summons are summoned for one big attack then go away) and I hope they continue along that route.

It was nice to get that, I wouldn't mind if that was the norm and maybe a little something special while we're in that form to remind us of what trance we're in. I think you might be on a good route, if we're able to get a bit of the summons power through us, we would feel some connection to the summons. Ifrit, and let us finish off with Inferno. If you did that and added a bit of something for each stance, a few small adjustments on the egi's end..it could be something. I wouldn't mind being able to harness just a bit of Titan.

Some of the ideas im seeing are just terrible and im kinda glad SE did not take some of these suggestions lol. Most of the ideas im seeing i'm just face palming so hard it hurts.

At least he suggested something though, all the ideas start off somewhere. It wasn't a perfect solution but it was something. I'm sure the starting points through S.E. were not wonderful at first and this will keep on coming up since both sides admit there is an issue. If S.E. sees it as a failure and something they didn't want to implement in the first place, and the players see it as something that could be adjusted..I think there is a common ground to work with. I'd love it if they took some time off towards 4.0 and re-did scholar and summoner. Both are wonderful ideas, and they did do their best to fit this into the lore.

Now that the lore is there, they can work around it. They probably should have held off a bit longer but if demand was high, they gave the baby their bottle and it didn't work out so well..

I do see how some aren't happy so much power comes from the caster, I think it is a little over the top but it sure beats 11 when if my pet dies, I was screwed..lol.

There's a solution and a balance, we just have to hope S.E. finds it, they did take us wanting this job into consideration and I love them for it. Now maybe it's time to let them know we are happy to let them get it right if need be.

[ArikDimas]

While I'd like to see summons become more of the classic idea of summons, I can understand how older versions of summoning wouldn't work in 14 outside of perhaps doing something like making enkindle work like dissipitation along with its damage. One thing I'd like to see as an idea for summoner is for them to go with traits that enhance our older skills to give them the theme of partially summoning a primal similar to entering dreadwyrm trance. An example could be something like let's say Ruin 1 strikes the enemy with a fiery claw while Ruin 2 launches a blast of air. Virus could look like it tries to capture the target in a rocky gaol while Eye for an Eye places a lightning barrier on the target to strike back at the enemy. Bane could spread out foul water from its target and Fester could perhaps cause ice to erupt from the enemy.

[Duelle]

Shiva-Egi never used ever in any case

This depends on how content is designed. I picture Shiva-Egi being very close design-wise to the WoW warlock succubus (who had decent spike damage along with a way to entirely disable an enemy for 30 seconds). This is useful in dungeons where you may need to CC one target in a pack, need to CC adds in a boss fight, or CC enemy players in PvP (one of the reasons why the succubus has been the PvP pet for a long time). Granted, Shiva-Egi would be better than the succubus because Seduction was limited to humanoid targets, whereas Dream of Ice (Shiva's version of seduction) could affect all enemy types. You're right in that this would be useless if we don't have the option of CC in fights and boss encounters, though.

Ramuh-Egi overused because AoE only superior on every big pull

Not really. It'd be situational depending on how many targets you're fighting at once. Specially if you make Ramuh-Egi damage aura-based; a damage aura wouldn't be doing massive amounts of damage but a little over time. I will admit it's tricky because you could easily make Ramuh-Egi a CC pet (Chaotic Strike), but AoE pet also makes sense (Shock Strike, Thunderstorm, Thunderspark).

What would be the difference at melee and caster if both attack only single target?

Distance from potential harm.

And Anti Caster Pet sounds useful in pvp maybe.

That's sort of the point. Leviathan-Egi would be useful in small parties where you need someone with interrupts, PvP (imagine a SMN being able to interrupt healers and weaken BLMs/enemy SMNs), and large parties where the SMN being part of the interrupt rotation may benefit a full party.

I'll point you to this, which is where my reasoning comes from. Of course, that writeup involves removing certain abilities from the egis (Contagion among several others).

[Shurrikhan]

Garuda-Egi - Caster pet.
Titan-Egi - Tank pet.
Ifrit-Egi - Melee pet.
Shiva-Egi - CC pet.
Leviathan-Egi - Anti-caster pet.
Ramuh-Egi - Damage aura/AoE pet.

As long as they stay that niche, with no situational use outside of those niches, I can't see this as improving the feel of actually picking one's pet.

[Duelle]

As long as they stay that niche, with no situational use outside of those niches, I can't see this as improving the feel of actually picking one's pet.

It's still a step above arbitrarily changing skins of a pet for no reason, which is what Egi glamours are.

[Shurrikhan]

It's still a step above arbitrarily changing skins of a pet for no reason, which is what Egi glamours are.

Fair enough; I despise the idea of Egi glamours. But it's still far from enough, imo.