Summoner revamp

[Ephryos]

Honestly I don't mind the current summoner's combat style and trances are interesting, but I still wish there was more actual interaction between you an the egi. Like I love how Enkindle is a spell that is based on the summoner's stats but is a command that has your pet perform the action. I think it would feel much more interactive if most of the summoners spells were actually spells they used through their egi instead of just by themselves.

Also, I hate the way the egis look with a passion, I love the idea of having a smaller version of the actual primal with how stunning most of them look. The egis are boring and bland. I also hate how every time you fight another egi in the summoner quest line it's like 5 times the size of your egi but still looks just as boring. And it doesn't even make sense since most of the time your egi is just as powerful, if the size is scaled to the power it makes no sense.

[Loggos]

I’ll split this up because I have a character limit for some reason… My apologies! - Edit Found a way to solve this. Sorry for the remaining double posts!

I think SMN in itself is on the right track but should rely on their summons more. I feel that a lot of its potential is untouched which is saddening which is why I'll try to make some unsolicited suggestions to expand the current SMN instead of completely revamping it. I understand it not making sense to have every SMN summon a full-blown Ifrit and I don't mind egis.

This is why I think the DoTs suit the class. It's an indirect playing style whereas the source of your direct hits could be your pet. But as many pointed out the pets seem to be the add-on. They are not the main source while you are in the background doing your DoT work and keeping them alive. They are the “background noise” or occasional DoT enhancer.

(I also think its no crime if XIV gives some of the FF legacy a different spin if done well and explores different routes to some extends.)


I wish they would put some more spotlight on the summons like having them learn at least one or two more important skills and not stick with four forever and maybe have them grow a little as you progress (improved aether management lorewise), and/or maybe slightly elaborating on the design every ten levels or so (comparable to armour that gets fancier and fancier to indicate how badass and highlevel you are.) Also the fact that some are almost universally preferred over others is not good imo. I know this is incredibly hard to balance but I would love to for egis to have more actual situational use or a bit more freedom to choose between summons for one situation in a "different but equal(ly effective)" type of way.

And while I really like dreadworm stance->Deathflare I’m afraid that choosing the ">summoning a beast/stance for one strong blast and then it'll disappear<in different versions as main source for DPS" route, if one were to revamp SMN, might ultimately turn it into “just” a strong caster with fancy animation and story. Its uniqueness might rather stem from the lore/visuals and not so much from mechanics. I think splitting damage by micro-managing pets and inducing indirect damage as back-up is quite unique and personally I enjoy this a lot.

One last idea – I’ll pretend to be joking while being at least half serious.

Another idea would be the Shiva route – turn into a beast yourself for a short amount of time. This might also help to work around the "no more egis" issue without sacrificing the identity of the summoner.

It sounds wacky but I think it could be unique and effective if well-planned. As you have limited aether you’d not be as strong, big and longlasting as a real primal ofc but would have a very short time frame to cause condensed higher damage.
Originally this was inspired by the manticore orb in DD. However the best comparison I have for this would be when you play charizard in supersmash and have your mega evo as smash attack for a limited time. Of course this would need a lot more balancing (than the manticore for example) but having one (or two, depending on the future level caps) “ultimate commands” that let you channel a primal within yourself for ~10 s and you get 2 or 3 skills+stats that make sense for them to cause a damage peak, then slap a long(er) cd on it – I would so play that…Also, since it happens in the actual story it would be in line with FF14's idea of summoning.

Maybe glamour could also be used much later on to customize your final form.

[Loggos]

See the original comment. I didn't know I can expand the character limit by editing so I ended up double posting. Sorry for that.

[Loggos]

See above.

[Keramory]

Although we would all be happy with egi glamor...in fact to most, that would save the job...I for one would still not call this class we have a real summoner job.

We could call it another class. Since it likes to poison and do little involving the "summons" themselves, because thats what it is. Another class. A summoner class move should be involved around it's summons, not just a little dps addition plus poison moves.

The class now isn't bad, I actually like it for what it is, I just wouldnt call it summon. Either rename it, make an actual summon class...or redo the class itself.

And before people say its too late, let me remind you we've remade classes completely in the past. Hell, we took out the elemental wheel lol.

[Neela]

2. You control the Egi, and the SMN does the sort of "auto damage" roll and sort of hovers off to the side (or on the shoulder of the larger Egi?)

this would fit the term summoner very well for me... controlling the Egi itself like the monster-buffs down at palace of death would make so much fun. [dream] giving the player the choice of being a 2nd off-tank in demand, a melee fighter or caster to react to any given situation would be something the base can't complain about. it would focus the Egi over the dots - sure skills have to be balanced but raising/dropping potency on skills shouldn't be a problem at [/dream]

another interesting mechanic would be a fusion-skill if there would be more than one smn in the grp - f.e 2x summoned Ifrits will fuse for a stronger hellfire-enkindle or 2x Garudas for a "real" hurricane-enkindle. but i doubt that FF14 will ever implement char-combo-skills at all : (((

[Dyvid]

So less summoning, more shape shifting?

[DarthVella]

I've rarely been fond of summoners or summoning in any game. The usual interpretation is of a glorified cutscene box with an MP-incontinent elemental mage hiding inside.

Games that actually give summons some battlefield significance like FFXIII normally do so by giving the summoner or the rest of the party the shaft, which isn't great either.

But I tend not to mind it so much when the summoning is part of a more diverse class, especially if the summons are limited in power or in your ability to use them. It gives the summons less focus, gives you some real tactical decision-making to do and often gives the character/class some more identity.

So, I actually like this interpretation of the Summoner. A touch more focus on or individuality between the Egis wouldn't be a bad thing, but it's perfectly serviceable the way it is.

[zuzu-bq]

I see this as the main complaint of many players that are fans of the Final Fantasy franchise when they come to Eorzea. First of all, as a game design choice for a MMORPG XIV's Summoners have small Egi Summons wich lore-wise the game writers managed to fit in the game lore in a great way explaining how the Arts of the Summoner works. So yeah, it may look visually lame for old FF fans? Maybe. But its mainly a game design choice that made possible the Job to exist in the game as a playable job and not a stetic choice.

[Jandor]

I posted an idea in the lore sub-forum of all places. It's not a revamp really, but I imagine a lot of existing Summoners don't particularly want that anyway.

I don't know about new abilities, but I do wish you used the power of an Elder Primal to summon that primal temporarily.

I'd have been all over Summoner 50-60 if Dreadwyrm trance was Summon IV, temporarily summoning Bahamut-egi for as long as you can safely do so. Level 60 skill could have been Enkindle II - make Bahamut-egi unleash a powerful attack at a cost of him disappearing after.

Would have tied in nicely with egi glamour as well. Pick Bahamut for Summon IV and have him mega-flare, or Odin with Zantetsuken, or Alexandar casting Divine Judgement. They're all essentially just casting Deathflare, but IMHO it'd be cooler this way .