AST Anima stat allocation

[Hirmu]

Wait wat, you compare a WHM with HPS in a Astro Anima Thread? sorry you are totally off then. And Nidhogg which is known for NOT continuosly casting with alot of downtime? Seems like we're not on the same page then.
First of all during Burstphases an extra spell eg. in the opener is a lot stronger than a minimal buffed one, especially if you allocate your skills not purely into dps but as well as into healing. The potency of an extra malefic II or stone III in the opener beats the potency gain of det or crit, simply because you don't calculate partybuffs in, but that is niche.

In a 10minute fight where you continuously fighting like A7S you can cast 300 spells, its just that ppl dont stack 1000 SpS. or prob a higher number would be even possible, just check the dps page for ast in a7s. I cannot comprehend why you even check the HPS-side since it doesnt make you a skilled player for overhealing like crazy. But yes it adds non-GCDs, but the extra time needed to think which card is right for the correct person also gives you some extra time, alot of AST don't seem to understand that preassigning cards beforehand makes you think alot less.

In the end my points prove nothing but that it nearly never matters which point you take, both stats have their pro and cons and to understand them to decide for yourself which playstyle is better for you.

You're arguing over points which have nothing to do with the subject at hand. First of all the stat works for WHM and AST in the same way when they cast something that's on GCD. AST has a native small haste in Diurnal, but it doesn't affect the question of SpS in any way, since you get that whether you boost SpS or something else, so when talking about what effect the stat has in general it doesn't matter which job you're looking at. But just to humour you, the top DPS astro in Nidhogg has 238 ability usages (in a bit shorter win though) and one that's from a fight lasting over 10 minutes, they have 234 ability usages. And again I want to stress that this is all abilities, not just the ones on GCD. And funny enough, they're about the same number that WHMs have. Because all healer jobs cast roughly at the same speed. And yeah, Nidhogg is maybe one with a bit more downtime than usual, but the fact is that even with 1000 SpS you can only cast about 266 times if there's zero downtime, no mechanics to dodge and you have MP to do that constantly. Not that it matters concerning the actual subject though, but your claim that 10 minute fights have 300 casts for healers is just pulled out of thin air and about 100 casts higher than reality.

But all that is beside the point and the fact that you're arguing about it just proves further that you in fact are missing the entire point how to gauge if the stat is worthwile or not. The point is, neither the fight used as an example nor the length of the fight matter at all when the question is if SpS is more valuable compared to crit or det for healers in general. This is because, as explained in the previous post, the value of spellspeed is based on if the additional casts gained with it are worth more than the fewer casts would be boosted by crit and / or det. You will have more casts in a 15 minute fight than a 10 minute fight, but at the same time the boost from crit and det would also be bigger.

The burst phase you're using as an argument works for some DDs (and at least WAR) where damage buffs are applied. Healers don't have damage buffs and I'm at least not aware of any healer opener like this. Can you give me an example and math of a healer opener or burst which is actually better with SpS than crit or det? Because I can't think of any.

But your main argument was that the number of casts matter, and that's completely and utterly wrong. It means absolutely nothing.

I'm just gonna illustrate to you why you're wrong. Let's assume a 1 minute fight with an imaginary spell. Case 1: lots of SpS and low potency. You get 26 casts, each with potency of 100. Total potency 2600. Case 2: low SpS, high potency. You get 24 casts, each with potency of 110. Total potency 2640 and less MP used -> better.

Now obviously I pulled the numbers out of my hat and they're rigged to make crit/det better. They don't prove that SpS is factually worse, but they prove that the sheer number of casts doesn't matter in any way, which was your argument and seems to be the argument that many other people have also said previously.

The real problem at hand is that there's no good way to estimate how much crit and det actually boost the potency and this is especially hard for healers who also need to count for the healing and can't just compare raw dps numbers. SpS is only better if crit and det cannot boost the overall potency enough to overcome the smaller amount of casts but it's hard to prove this. At least before Heavensward SpS was inferior.

However for DPS classes it's pretty much a given that it's crit and det all the way unless you have a spesific need for a certain skillspeed level to get that extra ability inside some buffs, so anecdotically I'd be willing to bet that the same works for healers as well, especially because this used to be the case earlier, too. But if you have math to prove otherwise, I'll happily accept that.

[MariaNyan]

...But all that is beside the point and the fact that you're arguing about it just proves further that you in fact are missing the entire point how to gauge if the stat is worthwile or not.The point is, neither the fight used as an example nor the length of the fight matter at all when the question is if SpS is more valuable compared to crit or det for healers in general. ...

This is where you are completely wrong. Someone who is not playing healer and only looking on theory stuff on paper cannot begin to even comprehend what you are trying to prove. What you basically saying is everyone who takes SpS is an idiot because the numbers on the paper show better hps/dps results. But healing is not about the raw numbers. It's about keeping your team alive on top of dps if theres no need to heal. And i can tell you that SpS makes it easier to keep your team up compared to DET, especially when you are not used to savage content nor do optimized fights. Take it with a grain of salt when i say SpS is the superior Heal/Dps mixed strat because of the safety it provides.

In fact go around ask some of the WHM/AST, not offhealers, on your server how they think about SpS and you will be positively suprised what stats they would pick between DET and SpS, the answer is not as clear as you seem to make it, theres more than only 1 correct answer when it comes to picking stats on the anima weapon.


And regarding crit, its by far the worst stat, ever did a cure III and ripped the agro off the MT in a8s? Crit can also backfire, so pls don't, you jsut kill the tanks dps if they aren't killing it already themselves.