AST Anima stat allocation

[_slowpoke_]

if there's even an optimal-ish build for the ast weapon at all.

There is, it's full Acc/PIE (same for WHM), but that's only if you raid Savage or do Extreme trials.

For piety, AST has the best MP management in the game at this point, so this is useless.

If you DPS in Extreme or Savage content like you should as a good healer, you will need the extra PIE, otherwise it's pretty useless, yes. Also, SCH MP management is still leagues ahead of both AST and WHM, and AST isn't actually that far ahead of WHM (even if you get the extra tick from LA consistently by aligning it shortly before server ticks happen), not enough for it to matter, anyway.

Accuracy, unless you're melding it and it is required by your raid group, is also pretty iffy.

Accuracy has by far the best stat returns per point (until cap) than any other substat in the game, and that is generally true for every job. There is absolutely no reason not to put it on your relic and meld it if you do Savage or Extreme content, especially since all the other substats are very meh in terms of return per point. Also, putting Accuracy on your relic allows you to meet hit caps without using pentamelded 220s while still melding your right side with Vitality V (which is still important in A8s and absurdly increases your survivability on all other floors).

(You will also likely be the main healer alongside a SCH in most serious raid scenarios anyhow.)

Being the main healer is no excuse not to DPS. I solo heal large parts of most fights as WHM and still push DPS as much as possible. A good healer duo can easily put out almost as much damage as a fifth DPS player would add, which is huge.

[Miyha]

There is, it's full Acc/PIE (same for WHM), but that's only if you raid Savage or do Extreme trials.

I have literally never heard of any healers running this configuration (except for SCHs with Crit/Acc), and I've played with some of the top healers on my server. You're a healer first and foremost, so stat your gear to reflect that. Yes you should DPS on the side if you have the chance to push DPS, but your primary purpose is healing. Making new healers think they HAVE to DPS no matter what only confuses people and creates issues. But that's a debate for another thread entirely.

If you DPS in Extreme or Savage content like you should as a good healer, you will need the extra PIE, otherwise it's pretty useless, yes. Also, SCH MP management is still leagues ahead of both AST and WHM, and AST isn't actually that far ahead of WHM (even if you get the extra tick from LA consistently by aligning it shortly before server ticks happen), not enough for it to matter, anyway.

Have you played AST? Only when shit hits the fan do I run low on MP, and that's from spamming heals. Yes, I do help push DPS whenever I'm able to. Standing around and doing nothing is unproductive otherwise. If you pop your LA on CD and maybe supplement with a Ewer if you feel you may need it, you shouldn't have to worry all that much about MP. From experience in Savage and Extreme content, my WHM counterparts run out of MP much faster than I do; again, I'm DPSing while healing, and usually so is the WHM. Piety is a waste when you can manage your MP properly and is better suited for a stat than can actually boost the power of your heals.

Accuracy has by far the best stat returns per point (until cap) than any other substat in the game, and that is generally true for every job. There is absolutely no reason not to put it on your relic and meld it if you do Savage or Extreme content, especially since all the other substats are very meh in terms of return per point. Also, putting Accuracy on your relic allows you to meet hit caps without using pentamelded 220s while still melding your right side with Vitality V (which is still important in A8s and absurdly increases your survivability on all other floors).

Won't argue with that. But like I said: I stat my gear purely for healing. I play a healer, not a DPS. I do DPS, and yes, I miss some Malefic IIs or Aeros, but other than that I take up most of the healing so that our SCH can pump out ~600 DPS while trying to keep Combusts/Combust IIs up on things.

Being the main healer is no excuse not to DPS. I solo heal large parts of most fights as WHM and still push DPS as much as possible. A good healer duo can easily put out almost as much damage as a fifth DPS player would add, which is huge.

Aaaaaand I never said it was. But as the main healer, your main job is to HEAL. If you're constantly worried about your DPS and stat your gear with DPS stats, you should play a DPS, not a healer. The devs have even confirmed that healers should not have to DPS to clear Savage fights unless you are in minimum gear to clear. (Again, I am not saying healers shouldn't DPS.) If you find yourself DPSing enough to get good use out of accuracy, then great. I personally think that stats are better allocated to stats that will boost healing power.

[Bebekurenai]

I don't do savage, nidhogg and the likes, so I'm very happy loading up on spell speed. It's pretty awesome how fast gravity can be cast outside of Lightspeed, and cures are almost instant. Also my dots are more powerful. I don't know where you got this idea of spell speed being useless >_> My second stat will be det. Was thinking of piety but having det already will boost my heals/dps, therefore no need of additional mp.

[Lunafreya]

Hi, I maxed out full SS and crit on mine. I was thinking of removing some SS for piety since my pie is at a low 14k mp or so and that kind of hurts me. Can anyone please recommend if putting piety is a waste or not?

[Taika]

Hi, I maxed out full SS and crit on mine. I was thinking of removing some SS for piety since my pie is at a low 14k mp or so and that kind of hurts me. Can anyone please recommend if putting piety is a waste or not?

If you haven't yet, you might want to check this Reddit thread about Piety and Spell speed findings: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...a1&sh=522a3875

From my understanding, PIE is actually a really well scaling stat, so if you feel like you can use some more MP (and aren't currently wasting it on overheals) I don't see you could go wrong with that (assuming you really need the MP and aren't just wasting it, but I have no idea how likely that is since I don't play AST). The obvious issue with PIE is that it doesn't boost the effectiveness of your heals or damage spells in any way, so if you can afford it, all other stats are always better.

[Bebekurenai]

Oh I see where you're coming from then >_>

[_slowpoke_]

You're a healer first and foremost, so stat your gear to reflect that.

Yes, and Accuracy to cap is the most appropriate way to stat your gear as a healer in FFXIV, because, again, it's the most gain per stat point in your overall performance, of which DPS is an integral part. The other stat points barely increase your healing throughput, and I generally go by the simple rule that if you cannot heal an encounter without the minuscule gains from melded substats and your weapon, you will not be able to heal it with those substats either (and vice versa). Accuracy is the objectively better stat to prioritize on, no matter which healer you play.

Only when shit hits the fan do I run low on MP, and that's from spamming heals. Yes, I do help push DPS whenever I'm able to. Standing around and doing nothing is unproductive otherwise. If you pop your LA on CD and maybe supplement with a Ewer if you feel you may need it, you shouldn't have to worry all that much about MP.

I don't mean to sound rude, but another healer once told me this simple truth: if you don't need extra PIE on AST or WHM, you simply do not DPS enough, and it's generally true. That extra PIE is also about sometimes being able to choose GCD efficiency over MP efficiency (such as using Cure II instead of spamming Cure I to get back into Cleric earlier), making room for fuck-ups during progression, and other more fuzzy benefits. Also, specifically for the relic, if you find you don't need any of the extra PIE, you can always reallocate it to a substat of your choice until you are at a comfortable level.

Also, as I've said before, AST MP solvency is only marginally better than WHM in theory, and really only pulls ahead if you consistently use the 10th LA tick. This comparison even ignores a lot of the other aspects of the two healer's toolkits, and I'm pretty positive Freecure procs alone level the field if you properly utilize them, but I'm not a theorycrafter. I can search for the appropriate reddit thread if you want to.

I claim you can't really even tell a difference if your cast / recast (I think there's a difference between cast and recast but I'm not sure?) is 0.25 seconds shorter than it would otherwise be and that it won't change your casting behaviour in any way (you can't start evading stuff 0.25 seconds earlier - unless you maybe have some kind of super eSports player reflexes).

And your claim is wrong. Spellspeed can have very noticeable effects on your timings on boss fights. For instance, on Nidex with 800-ish SpS (2.33s recast), I can pretty consistently fit in two Stone IIIs plus an Aero before Eggnogg takes off for the first dive, with less SpS, I can only fit in one Stone III plus an Aero. With even less SpS, I would not be able to fit in a Stone III after my opener before I need to switch out of Cleric for a bit to heal the tank and group without messing up all my timings. And yes, more SpS can easily allow you to better dodge things or heal between movement mechanics, you don't need to be a "super eSports player" for this. I agree that SpS can be fuzzy, non-obvious, and subjective in its benefits, but it's false to claim you can't tell any differences. In my opinion, you should have, at the very least, enough SpS to consistently fit in another spell into your buffs, such as Divine Seal, Presence of Mind, or Synastry (which is the case at around 500-600, depending on latency).

[Taika]

Spellspeed can have very noticeable effects on your timings on boss fights. For instance, on Nidex with 800-ish SpS (2.33s recast), I can pretty consistently fit in two Stone IIIs plus an Aero before Eggnogg takes off for the first dive, with less SpS, I can only fit in one Stone III plus an Aero. With even less SpS, I would not be able to fit in a Stone III after my opener before I need to switch out of Cleric for a bit to heal the tank and group without messing up all my timings.

This is a good point in support of spellspeed, but if each cast is 0.15 seconds faster than they would be without spellspeed build (so let's say you have 1000 spellspeed and your recast is 2.25 while mine without spellspeed is 2.40), you would need to cast 15 spells in a row without any breaks in between to get one additional cast, right? Meanwhile with another stat those 15 casts might be more powerful, making up for that 1 cast and perhaps even resulting in more DPS/HPS.

And yes, more SpS can easily allow you to better dodge things or heal between movement mechanics, you don't need to be a "super eSports player" for this.

I don't know, to me the thought of trying to start moving 0.15 seconds earlier feels far-fetched.

In my opinion, you should have, at the very least, enough SpS to consistently fit in another spell into your buffs, such as Divine Seal, Presence of Mind, or Synastry (which is the case at around 500-600, depending on latency).

My spellspeed with having actively avoided any spellspeed gear is already at over 600 though. But I agree considering if you'd be able to fit another spell within buffs with spellspeed is a good point. But since Divine Seal only lasts for 15 seconds and Synastry last 20, it's not possible for those (if my recast is 2.4 seconds I can do 8.3 casts in 20 seconds, if it's 2.25 I can do 8.8, so both are more than 8 but less than 9). I don't dare to make any claims for PoM with my math though (and please point out if you see any problems with my other calculations here).

[Hirmu]

And your claim is wrong. Spellspeed can have very noticeable effects on your timings on boss fights. For instance, on Nidex with 800-ish SpS (2.33s recast), I can pretty consistently fit in two Stone IIIs plus an Aero before Eggnogg takes off for the first dive, with less SpS, I can only fit in one Stone III plus an Aero. With even less SpS, I would not be able to fit in a Stone III after my opener before I need to switch out of Cleric for a bit to heal the tank and group without messing up all my timings. And yes, more SpS can easily allow you to better dodge things or heal between movement mechanics, you don't need to be a "super eSports player" for this.

That's a very spesific case though. Nidhogg jumps at excatly 30 seconds into the fight. And as it turns out, 30 seconds is the sweet spot where with 824 SpS you get 12.96 casts in and with 850 you get 13.01. With 500 SpS you would get in 12.3 casts and that's pretty much as low as you can ever go with SpS. So at minimum you can do 12 casts and at maximum 13 before Nidhogg jumps if you're casting the entire time non-stop and start at exactly the right millisecond when the tank pulls.

Pre-casting before the pull affects this a bit in a difficult way. If you start to precast so that your first cast lands exactly at the same time when the tank pulls, then your second spell starts casting basically at 0 seconds into the fight, so while that gains you an extra cast, it doesn't change the amount of casts you can do in 30 seconds. With maximum SpS and a perfect pre-cast, you get in 14 casts total.

Now if you have a 1000 SpS, it takes you 29.29 seconds to cast 13 times. So with that you can afford to land your precast 0.7 seconds into the fight and still get the 14 casts in, but any later than that and you only get 13. So you need to time it with 0.7 seconds of precision to get that 14 with 1000 SpS, if you fail that 0.7 second window, you're either pulling early or getting only 13 casts in.

With 500 SpS, it takes you 29.25 seconds to cast 12 times so you need to work with almost the same precision if you want to get 13 casts in instead of 14. With more SpS you can widen the window and at 850 SpS you don't even need to precast at all the get 13 casts in.

So what you're saying is generally speaking technically a possible scenario and there are gaps like that in the game where spellspeed or skillspeed can give you an extra GCD usage, especially when you have a nicely contained scenario like fitting certain amount of GCDs inside a buff timer.

However your claim that it's SpS which gives you the edge to cast an extra spell before the jump is not plausible.

With 2.33s cast time you use 30.29 seconds to get in 13 casts, so that means there's no way you can do 14 casts and as long as you start precasting 0.3 seconds before the pull you can get 13 casts in, something you could easily do with a lot less SpS, technically even with 500 if you're very precise.

Instead what Taika claims that you can't notice the difference seems to be more believable. A more likely scenario is that you're actually losing some time in between those casts to something (healing and swapping targets, not precasting, latency, stacking instant abilities in between GCDs too slowly, potion lag or something else) and missing at least one possible cast entirely.

In any case you're talking about a 100 ms difference in cast time, which is probably a lot less than your latency. During those 13 casts that amounts up to 1.3 seconds spread over 13 tiny increments. What Taika said about the e-sports level precision is very accurate, I'm certain that some players are able to exploit that 100 ms difference, but any messy tab-targeting or lag or imperfect pre-cast and you've introduced a far greater noise to your rotation so I'm sorry for doubting your player abilities, but I'm fairly sure it's not the SpS which causes you to get that extra spell in sometimes. It's possible, but out of reach for the majority of players.

@Taika
you seem to underestimate Spellspeed simply because you don't seem to understand what those 0.1s or 0.15s difference means. In a 10 minute fight you roughly cast 300 Spells. Those translates into 30 or even 45s saved time, which results into way more gcds than you think, not counting in breakpoints like additional dot when boss flies up or the leeway for additional emergency heal.

You're missing the point yourself.

Even if it is possible in certain scenarios to get extra casts in and certainly it's true for longer fights, it doesn't prove any point for or against. To gauge which stat is better you must understand that those points don't just go to waste, they go to CRIT, ACC and DET. It doesn't matter if you get 12 casts in instead of 13 but if those 12 are in total more powerful than the 13 weaker ones, then they're objectively better because of lower total MP cost. Especially regarding dps situations for healers, if your acc is below 100%, that means some of your precious casts are completely wasted time and MP. The sheer number of casts means nothing.

Also as to your other claim, in a 10 minute fight you can with 1000 SpS cast 266 spells if you do it nonstop, which never happens. For example in Nidhogg Ex, the very best (HPS) WHM according to fflogs has 188 ability usages during the fight which lasts 10 min 3 seconds. And that includes everything, including non-GCD abilities like swiftcast, virus and such. That's over a hundred casts less than you're claiming and that's an exceptional player.

Also with 500 SpS you get 246 casts and with 1000 SpS you get 266 casts in 10 minutes, non-stop. So that's 20 casts more if there are no pauses at all. So what you need to do is to gauge if you can gain more by investing crit, acc and DET for those 246 casts or is it better to cast more and weaker spells using more MP. Just saying there's more casts is ignorant. Also the benefit from SpS comes only if you cast a lot of spells with no stops in between at all due to movement or boss disappearing.

The only valid argument for SpS is that yes, it gives you that 100-150 ms faster GCDs which in theory give you a better reaction time but it's very difficult to exploit that and anyone claiming to be fast enough to do that is probably overestimating their abilities. Especially because almost everything can be anticipated so that if you actally need to rely on that reaction time and it's cutting that close, you're already doing something horribly wrong and should learn the fight a bit better.

In short, SpS is only better if the number of extra casts you can get with it (and you only get one of those extra casts if you are able to cast about 30 seconds straight with no breaks whatsoever) during a fight are in total more powerful than the fewer but more powerful casts you can get by investing the same number of points in other stats.

[MariaNyan]

You're missing the point yourself.

Even if it is possible in certain scenarios to get extra casts in and certainly it's true for longer fights, it doesn't prove any point for or against. To gauge which stat is better you must understand that those points don't just go to waste, they go to CRIT, ACC and DET. It doesn't matter if you get 12 casts in instead of 13 but if those 12 are in total more powerful than the 13 weaker ones, then they're objectively better because of lower total MP cost. Especially regarding dps situations for healers, if your acc is below 100%, that means some of your precious casts are completely wasted time and MP. The sheer number of casts means nothing.


Also as to your other claim, in a 10 minute fight you can with 1000 SpS cast 266 spells if you do it nonstop, which never happens. For example in Nidhogg Ex, the very best (HPS) WHM according to fflogs has 188 ability usages during the fight which lasts 10 min 3 seconds. And that includes everything, including non-GCD abilities like swiftcast, virus and such. That's over a hundred casts less than you're claiming and that's an exceptional player.

Also with 500 SpS you get 246 casts and with 1000 SpS you get 266 casts in 10 minutes, non-stop. So that's 20 casts more if there are no pauses at all. So what you need to do is to gauge if you can gain more by investing crit, acc and DET for those 246 casts or is it better to cast more and weaker spells using more MP. Just saying there's more casts is ignorant. Also the benefit from SpS comes only if you cast a lot of spells with no stops in between at all due to movement or boss disappearing.

The only valid argument for SpS is that yes, it gives you that 100-150 ms faster GCDs which in theory give you a better reaction time but it's very difficult to exploit that and anyone claiming to be fast enough to do that is probably overestimating their abilities. Especially because almost everything can be anticipated so that if you actally need to rely on that reaction time and it's cutting that close, you're already doing something horribly wrong and should learn the fight a bit better.

In short, SpS is only better if the number of extra casts you can get with it (and you only get one of those extra casts if you are able to cast about 30 seconds straight with no breaks whatsoever) during a fight are in total more powerful than the fewer but more powerful casts you can get by investing the same number of points in other stats.

Wait wat, you compare a WHM with HPS in a Astro Anima Thread? sorry you are totally off then. And Nidhogg which is known for NOT continuosly casting with alot of downtime? Seems like we're not on the same page then.
First of all during Burstphases an extra spell eg. in the opener is a lot stronger than a minimal buffed one, especially if you allocate your skills not purely into dps but as well as into healing. The potency of an extra malefic II or stone III in the opener beats the potency gain of det or crit, simply because you don't calculate partybuffs in, but that is niche.

In a 10minute fight where you continuously fighting like A7S you can cast 300 spells, its just that ppl dont stack 1000 SpS. or prob a higher number would be even possible, just check the dps page for ast in a7s. I cannot comprehend why you even check the HPS-side since it doesnt make you a skilled player for overhealing like crazy. But yes it adds non-GCDs, but the extra time needed to think which card is right for the correct person also gives you some extra time, alot of AST don't seem to understand that preassigning cards beforehand makes you think alot less.

In the end my points prove nothing but that it nearly never matters which point you take, both stats have their pro and cons and to understand them to decide for yourself which playstyle is better for you.