Let's Get Rid of Cross Class Ability Restrictions

[Kacho_Nacho]

Dear Square Enix,

One thing which is bothering me about FFXIV is how cookie cutter all the classes/jobs are. The only means to customize how a character plays is in the choosing of which cross class abilities to use.

However, even this option is limited because the various classes are allowed only to use cross class abilities from specific pre-chosen classes.

I feel this should be reviewed. I believe the game play would benefit by first, expanding the number of abilities which other classes can cross class, and second, getting rid of the idea a specific class can pull their additional abilities from only a few other classes.

Allow players the freedom to choose any cross class ability to enhance their game play.

Thank you for you time!

Sincerely,

Kacho Nacho of Couerl

[ErikMynhier]

The problem is customization is an illusion in MMOs. Sure they could unlock everything, but it would only take two days for the metagame to boil it down and we will have the 5 best in slot for each job. And if you don't have the 5, then you'll get booted. Why bother? What's the difference from square choosing for us and high end players choosing?

[odintius]

The problem is customization is an illusion in MMOs. Sure they could unlock everything, but it would only take two days for the metagame to boil it down and we will have the 5 best in slot for each job. And if you don't have the 5, then you'll get booted. Why bother? What's the difference from square choosing for us and high end players choosing?

And those are the people that kill any kind of fun in gaming in general and are the reasons they help with nothing ever being added and end up eventually being dry mundane content that repeats itself and people think it can gone on like that forever is just as much an illusion IMO.

[Velhart]

And those are the people that kill any kind of fun in gaming in general and are the reasons they help with nothing ever being added and end up eventually being dry mundane content that repeats itself and people think it can gone on like that forever is just as much an illusion IMO.

Better to have balanced set abilities as opposed to unbalanced quote on quote "fun structure"

[Khalithar]

Snip

I understand your sentiment, but at the end of the day MMO's are just number generators with a fancy user interface. Whether you agree or not, there will always be a de facto best build to use, hell we have something like that already where dps classes only have one optimal rotation and order to use their abilities with no option to play "differently." The only role that you could argue doesn't have a set rotation are healers since they have to react appropriately to different situations as they pop up. Besides the fact, if they did lift the restrictions pretty much everyone will use the same abilities anyway. Every physical dps (and probably the tanks to) will take blood for blood, raging strikes, internal release, and invigorate. Lifting the restrictions will make the "best" build even more obvious.

[Shurrikhan]

The problem is customization is an illusion in MMOs. Sure they could unlock everything, but it would only take two days for the metagame to boil it down and we will have the 5 best in slot for each job. And if you don't have the 5, then you'll get booted. Why bother? What's the difference from square choosing for us and high end players choosing?

I understand your sentiment, but at the end of the day MMO's are just number generators with a fancy user interface. Whether you agree or not, there will always be a de facto best build to use, hell we have something like that already where dps classes only have one optimal rotation and order to use their abilities with no option to play "differently." The only role that you could argue doesn't have a set rotation are healers since they have to react appropriately to different situations as they pop up. Besides the fact, if they did lift the restrictions pretty much everyone will use the same abilities anyway. Every physical dps (and probably the tanks to) will take blood for blood, raging strikes, internal release, and invigorate. Lifting the restrictions will make the "best" build even more obvious.

That said, balancing such as to bring multiple options within some 1% of each other generally or within 3% for a given fight is not impossible to come by. The "illusion of choice" only partly boils down to constraints of the medium. The rest comes down to flawed execution.

The latter just tends to excuse itself by masking it as a wholly guaranteed outcome when developers no longer desire to spend so much time and money on balancing, often for oversights that they may later readily admit they should have seen coming.

I agree completely though that "freedom" in selection rarely correlates with multiplicity of options. It's because we're stuck with a few evenly crap options that we still have any real choices.

The cross-class system could use a lot of work to make it something engaging, but simply opening it up will only do the opposite.

[Souleater13]

Agreed, something needs to be changed with the system(adjust, get rid of, etc) especially with probable new skills introduced in expansion.
I personally enjoyed the sub class system from FF11, not saying that FF14 could adpot that type of system instead of cross-class but i wouldnt be opposed to it.

[Kacho_Nacho]

The problem is customization is an illusion in MMOs. Sure they could unlock everything, but it would only take two days for the metagame to boil it down and we will have the 5 best in slot for each job. And if you don't have the 5, then you'll get booted. Why bother? What's the difference from square choosing for us and high end players choosing?

It must be sad to be playing with such a paranoid view of the game. Fact is, I've been playing MMOs for over ten years and I have never seen people kicked from a raid because they didn't have the perfect talent tree/ability selection/etc... as pre-decided by these mythical all knowing high end players.

Uhm...so...instead of every physical DPS having B4B and Invigorate, every physical DPS would have Internal Release, Raging Strikes, B4B and Invigorate, with every NIN/MCH filling the final slot with Hawk's Eye and the rest filling the final slot with Straight Shot.

It's, uh...fairly predictable which skills people would cross class, if given the choice.

I'm not so certain. What I have observed in other games is that several different builds would rise to the top in popularity rather than just one. Granted, it all depends on which abilities would be in the cross class pool to choose from.

That is incredibly strenuous on the developer's end. Not only is it constant balance to keep this in check, especially with new jobs that come in the expansion, but each fight and the fights before need to take into account that people can cross any ability they want onto their job.

How so? Surely, it wouldn't be too difficult to run some simulations to determine the most likely increase in DPS, Healing, and Damage Mitigation and adjust the game accordingly? After all, we are talking a one time adjustment.

In a perfect world, it would be a good idea,

But we aren't playing Perfect World! Sorry, a little joke. hee hee

I'm of the opposite opinion OP, I'd rather see them scrap the cross class system entirely and start pruning abilities. Give the jobs the one or two necessary abilities (such as giving all tanks a provoke move) as a baseline and scrap the cross class system.

That's an interesting idea. Certainly, it would be nice to have all your necessary abilities up front. If Square Enix goes this route, how do feel it would impact the current system where a player has to level up two classes to open a job?

And those are the people that kill any kind of fun in gaming in general...

Tell me about it. Personally, I don't give a goblin's fig what the upper 2% of the raiding community are doing. I rather have fun even if it takes me longer to get to Heavensward and beyond. For me, it's always been about journey, the friends I meet along the way, and how we accomplished our dreams together. Somehow, I never bothered to pick up the high end raiders approval slip of what I was doing.

Peace, love, and strawberry lemonade,

-Kacho

[Velhart]

How so? Surely, it wouldn't be too difficult to run some simulations to determine the most likely increase in DPS, Healing, and Damage Mitigation and adjust the game accordingly? After all, we are talking a one time adjustment.

Do you know how balancing works on the development side? They don't just hit a button and everything balances itself out. On the system they have right now they have enough problems balancing that. DRK, MCH, and especially AST while also including other jobs that went from 50 > 60 was quite an ordeal to get to a decent balance. BRD and MCH casting stance was pretty much broken. With how much they deal with now, you want a system like this put on top of it? Like I said, it causes more problems than solves. There is such an array of sub abilities that just one thing not properly looked into can break the balance.

[Khalithar]

That's an interesting idea. Certainly, it would be nice to have all your necessary abilities up front. If Square Enix goes this route, how do feel it would impact the current system where a player has to level up two classes to open a job?

I never liked that system in the first place honestly, especially if it involves leveling something you don't want to play. To unlock paladin for example, I had to level conjurer to 15, I didn't mind it so much, but I rolled gladiator to tank, if I wanted to level a healer it should be because I wanted to try it out, not because I had to heal because I wanted to tank. Same thing with dragoon, to get mercy stroke I have to level marauder to 26 (I think, it's been a while), if I rolled lancer to be a melee dps, why should I have to level a tank? The jobs are so strong that you really need to unlock them to do your role properly.

I like the idea of your class evolving in to something stronger though, so that end, if they scrap the cross class system (as I hope) I want to see all the classes turn in to their respective jobs at 30 once you complete the pre-requisite class quests without the need to level the sub class at all.