Let's Get Rid of Cross Class Ability Restrictions

[StouterTaru]

You are proving my point even further each time you post. So with the already trial and error they go with in this system, you now suggest they make that system even more open?

What exactly is that point, that it's too much work for the developers to balance out anything except damage dealt?

I'd like to see dps that do more than just dps, tanks that do more than just dps and mitigate tankbusters, healers that do more than just dps and toss out the occasional cure. With the current instance system an all out support job would be worthless in 4-man while essential in 8-man runs, but what's wrong with expanding support abilities of all jobs?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

What exactly do you propose, Stouter? What else can anyone do besides DPS plus their job role in combat?

[Kacho_Nacho]

I never said the current system is perfect. I actually use that non-perfection to further illustrate my point that being more open causes more problems than the ones already there. I would argue however that the balance is in a pretty decent state right now. Not the best, but it is working pretty well. I think you would benefit to try to learn how this affects things on the developer's end especially for this. I respect your approach to the topic and like I said in a perfect world I would be for it, but I look at the reality of the situation of dealing with a system like this and I simply cannot agree to it.

*Hugs* And I respect your points against my suggestion. In truth, I'm an art guy when it comes to games. I wouldn't know where to start as a developer.

However, I don't need to be a developer. I'm a customer who is expressing a desire to have a bit more freedom in personalizing my character and getting rid of the cross class limitations was the first thing which came to mind. The forum debates the positives and negatives of my idea and the developers either review my suggestion or put it in the shredder.

In addition, I love floating ideas just to see what other players think. The counter-idea of pruning abilities from the classes while front loading them with the essentials is very interesting. I'd like to see more debate on that topic. After all, we all want the same thing, a great game.

In terms of balance, I agree. We currently have no overpowered classes/jobs and every class is fully capable of completing all the content. That's a wonderful place to be.

[Shurrikhan]

*Hugs* And I respect your points against my suggestion. In truth, I'm an art guy when it comes to games. I wouldn't know where to start as a developer.

I love floating ideas just to see what other players think. The counter-idea of pruning abilities from the classes while front loading them with the essentials is very interesting. I'd like to see more debate on that topic. After all, we all want the same thing, a great game.

Out of curiosity, do you think there's an artistic place for a revamped Cross-Class system? Something that could aid the game's engaging-ness, even if in an almost passive way, that a ravamp to the CC system would be an intuitive fit for?

On the latter topic, I think both would be good ideas. QoL changes, I think, could start with one very simple idea: multi-skill / dynamic slots, wherein you can attach one ability per requisite stance to a particular hotbar spot. Inner Beast and Fell Cleave could share the same slot, as could Fang & Claw and Whirling Thrust, for instance. Similarly, you could narrow the buttons spent on combo abilities from, say, 8, to 2 on DRG, or from 6 to 3 on NIN, though the latter would be more messy. However, that would be a band-aid approach, and unless made default, an unnecessarily additional step. I'd like to see the feature nonetheless, but I don't think it a full solution by any means.

I feel like the first concern of skill pruning ought to be what each class's, job's, and skill's gameplay ought to really be. At present, skills especially have little difference from one another. A Savage Blade is a non-Maimable Skull Sunder is a 13-potency short Spinning Slash. Differentiating those abilities would not only go away for plotting a course for pruning and improved class identity, but also likely for cross-class abilities.

This may however be reliant on other systems. In the past I've suggested a few such as Stagger (wherein dps plays into interruption and DPS players themselves play a more pivotal part in party survival) and/or Pain (a longer-term equivalent, which works hand in hand with Stagger and brings out composition differences further), Multi-strikes (an actual difference between abilities that hit multiple vs. a single time, playing into Stagger), Links, Elemental Wheel Revamps, Shared Resource Pools (e.g. passing certain magic types back and forth, using them in different ways), etc., but these all run the risk of being both a server and development overload. I'd like to see what other ideas people have out there, especially in regards to undermechanics that could allow for further ability and composition differentiation without breaking balance.

Sorry for the brevity of the response; only on between oven timers atm...

[ADVSS]

for button bloat if necessary it would be nice, if say for Warrior, abilities in deliverance acted like equilibrium, aka the defiance only abilites getting traits to have a use in deliverance for instance, and any job thats got stance locked skills etc(though bloodweapon is the only other example i can think of in this case)

[Kacho_Nacho]

Out of curiosity, do you think there's an artistic place for a revamped Cross-Class system? Something that could aid the game's engaging-ness, even if in an almost passive way, that a ravamp to the CC system would be an intuitive fit for?
*snippity snip*
Sorry for the brevity of the response; only on between oven timers atm...

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you are asking. Could you ask your question in another way, please?

Oven timers? Whatcha' cooking?

[Shurrikhan]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you are asking. Could you ask your question in another way, please?

Hmm, I'm not really sure how else it can be asked. You mentioned being an art guy when it came to games, and at least for me—somewhere between the two—a whole lot comes out in a game's animations, maybe not by themselves, but certainly centered on them. Are there any issues you see with the game, or areas that it can be improved, that you think might be done through or be finalized by certain revamps to the cross-class system. Could any of that have artistic considerations, too, rather than merely mechanical.

For instance, one of the issues I most have is that animations seem rather detached from their effects in this game. We have abilities like Spinning Slash that somehow don't do AoE damage, despite seemingly striker a wider and deeper area than Overpower. There's no difference between abilities that strike once and abilities that strike multiple times. And there's no backing difference between Strength and Dexterity—their just two different names for an attack power stat, split to ensure that one needs more, wholly separate sets of accessories between MNK & DRG and NIN & Ranged. Though I can't imagine a revamp to the cross-class system fixing those things by itself, not with only that goal in mind would a revamp seem at all worthwhile, I can imagine that other beneficial changes could be designed such as to lead to that revamp.

[Souleater13]

Agreed, something needs to be changed with the system(adjust, get rid of, etc) especially with probable new skills introduced in expansion.
I personally enjoyed the sub class system from FF11, not saying that FF14 could adpot that type of system instead of cross-class but i wouldnt be opposed to it.