Let's Get Rid of Cross Class Ability Restrictions

[Zari]

Personally I'd just give us traited versions of the skills and add all base skills of the 2 base classes we are locked into. Gives all jobs a plethora of options. I mean if we are locked into 2 sub jobs and we get the traited versions on those jobs themselves would we not qualify for them? Come on now.

Either that or allow us to cross class from any base class.

Until that happens the "cross-class" system will remain a joke only taking skills you feel are mandatory which implies no choice at all.

Make the player feel rewarded for leveling all those classes up.

Wait so the current one is an illusion of choice but removing the restrictions wouldn't also be the same damn thing? People would find whatever the new mandatory cross class skills are and take those. It is the same damn thing

[MagiusNecros]

Wait so the current one is an illusion of choice but removing the restrictions wouldn't also be the same damn thing? People would find whatever the new mandatory cross class skills are and take those. It is the same damn thing

No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

[Velhart]

No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

This game is set up where healers and BRD/MCH can handle support like functions. If I knew you were intentionally not using abilities to optimize your DPS over support functions not needed, I would have no problem kicking you out.

[MagiusNecros]

You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

Honestly, if that utility doesn't end up a potential very near or further increase to raid DPS, it's not really a choice.

I see. So all people care about is optimal DPS. Makes sense. Ultimately boring. If the skills we have now are mandatory they should simply scrap the CC system and place skills that grant the same effects within the job's own skill kit.

I mean if we really do have no choice then they can at least be honest about it.

[StouterTaru]

You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

This game is set up where healers and BRD/MCH can handle support like functions. If I knew you were intentionally not using abilities to optimize your DPS over support functions not needed, I would have no problem kicking you out.

If BLM could cross class every single skill that anyone can cross class, they would have 5 abilities that could increase dps, and that's including Straight Shot and Aero. Are either of those a larger dps increase than a melee/tank getting a Goad?

[Shurrikhan]

No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

Honestly, if that utility doesn't end up a potential very near or further increase to raid DPS, it's not really a choice.

Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

It just started sounding more irrelevant than fun-seeking when you said you wouldn't be optomizing dps. Note that you didn't just say 'personal' dps or the like. Instead you mentioned scripted encounters, negatively I'd assume... despite that being where you can in turn script out your utility decisions to create the least clash or repetition. Fun-seeking to most MMO players, I honestly think, is optomization. The more innovations the game allows, the more complications that form from intuitive and/or tactically-minded adaptations to those means of adaptations, the more fun. Saying that something will be "fun" regardless its actual usability... tends not to live up to its description. I'd imagine that's why you're being met skeptically.

I see. So all people care about is optimal DPS. Makes sense. Ultimately boring. If the skills we have now are mandatory they should simply scrap the CC system and place skills that grant the same effects within the job's own skill kit.

I mean if we really do have no choice then they can at least be honest about it.

They've been honest about this part of MMO gaming since you saw your first floating combat text. This is a number game. Not a dance-off—which, upon digitalization, would probably also be a number game. Healing, enfeeblements, TP refreshes, kiting, tanking, CCing, etc., are all effectively raid DPS increases. The fight or relevant portion of it ends more quickly or with fewer resources necessary for later combat spent because of that combination of effects. Does that make them boring?

[bass9020]

I wish we could go back to the 1.0 days when people didn't care about who was using what abilities.

[Deathgiver]

I wish we could go back to the 1.0 days when people didn't care about who was using what abilities.

lol wut?

1.0 encounters (on release, not after they got nerfed into the ground through skill adjustments):
ifrit : sentinel mandatory for all party members.
darkhold : stack archers and lancers for the long range damage on ogre, dps had to have tank skills cross-classed for skeles at batraal.
moogles: stack bards because screw chasing moogles around on melee
aurum vale: stack blm for coincounter, melee for miser's mistress, preferably mnk.


The community very much cared what skills you had and used. The groups that did it successfully with so-called "balanced parties" were in the minority.

edit: The concerns about balancing are a real thing, very few people cold find a dedicated group that could successfully clear content on release without having at least 4 or 5 jobs leveled to cap, and certain jobs just weren't taken into some fights. Our mt had to theory craft the crap out of his opener to be able to take his pld into chimera in cutter's because of the damage scaling vs war, and even though it was doable it was certainly not optimal.

[NovaLevossida]

The problem is there's really no content as of yet that calls for flexibility in ability choices. There's no single choice you can make that is as impactful as a subjob in FFXI. For WAR for example, /MNK to begin with, /THF later if you wanted for big hits, /NIN or /SAM still later on, then situational subjobs for certain content, etc. Deep Dungeon might have provided that sort of open ended flexibility in secondary ability choices but we don't really have anything meaningful to choose from.

If there's no content that allows for freedom in choice and not enough abilities to actually have a choice to draw from, they might as well get rid of cross class altogether with 4.0 and just redesign everything from the ground up.

[RiceisNice]

Increasing the amount of cross skills really would not address anything, infact it'd just make the intial problem worse; there's no job identity, there's button bloating and skills feel homogenized. It'd be a much better alternative to get rid of cross skilling in general and bake in those "required" abilties into the moveset; WAR and DRK would have their own form of provoke that acts as their own skill rather than being derived from PLD. DPS classes would have their own way of managing TP (such as how much has purification) rather than everyone using invigorate, etc etc.