Dragoon Poll (Should DRG have a Wyvern?)

[Coldbrand]

Hell no. Jump should be good enough instill envy in others, and beyond that give us freya's shit and maybe breath attacks ala FFTA.

[Anonymoose]

After putting some thought into it, I think my opinion lies with the anti-pet crowd. Allow me to outline a few points here; I want this to come off less like I'm choosing a side or arguing a point and more like I'm stating, "I think it's in the best interest of FFXIV and the franchise tradition."

I've tried to arrange my points in a hierarchy, where one leads into the other, so that when read as a whole, it becomes clear why pet-less makes more sense.

Quote this everywhere you feel necessary.

• Semantics: A dragoon is, by definition, a battle specialist capable of making war either as infantry or cavalry. This alone does not imply any connotations to dragons at all; simply the ability to fight with a good reach; the term dragoon should only be associated with weapons and battle choices. The power of the Dragoon lies within his spear, not his pet.
• Localization: Dragoon is our name for the job, not the true name of the job. Ryuukishi simply means Dragon Knight; as in the noun Knight (armored solider who serves lord or land in war) modified by the adjective Dragon (of or relating to Dragons. <Herpaderp>) Combine the east and west traditions and you arrive at: An armored solider, skilled in infantry and cavalry, who is of or resembles a dragon. So far, even Ma Chao of Dynasty Warriors fame fits the bill just fine, and he fought solo.
  
  
  
  "Wiv Urn? That thing I smashed to get a meat patty?"
• PAUSE THREAD: Sidenote: DEAR GOD, PLEASE STOP ATTACKING THE MA CHAO THING. I know, it's the weakest piece of "evidence" here, but that's because I'm not being at all serious there. It was a joke pointing out that if that's all we asked of Dragoon, even Ma Chao qualifies, so let's move on to more pressing matters. I was not, at all, saying, "Man, Ma Chao makes a great Dragoon. Look at this guy!" UNPAUSE THREAD
• Tradition: Though not required by semantic standards, Final Fantasy has tied Dragon Knight to dragons many times in many forms. This was first introduced in Final Fantasy II, where Dragon Knight did indeed fight alongside a wyvern - but before quoting this as evidence, do realize this wyvern was big enough to ride and also acted as the "Cavalry" half of that whole "Dragoon" thing. Using that as evidence to recycle XI's mechanics in XIV is ... flimsy. At best. The rest of the series just has Dragoon maintaining the standard of a lance wielder who can jump really high (or maybe he was pole vaulting the entire time and we never noticed) and often befriends dragons.
• FFXI: Compared to the aforementioned, XI's dragoon was a rogue; a wannabe - An infantry-only dragonslayer (WTF?) who has a change of heart and hangs around with the least intimidating version of a namesake you could ever model your goofy purple armor after. That's like having a Chocobo Knight who spends his life hunting down chocobos until he realizes the error of his ways and begins fighting alongside a chicken. (THAT'S RIGHT, I WENT THERE.)
• Game Mechanic: If LNC gains a pet, he will have to become weaker as a balance. Getting weaker is only acceptable evolution if your goal is to become better at something else (such as healing, buffing, or tanking.) A dragon knight (again, an armored warrior who fights on land and mount; taking on the image and ferocity of a dragon) should never hold the goal of kicking less ass. Ever. Even for an adorable sidekick who does not enhance any of his aforementioned traditional characteristics or even act as his cavalry.
• Lore: Wrap up everything we have so far and Lancer should be evolving from a pole wielding infantryman to a heavily armored multi-faceted ass-kicking machine who looks like a godsdamn dragon. He could fight alone from the back of a chocobo and still fulfill every requirement. His raw power and passion should be so mighty as to impress the dragon-kind. His quests and missions should involve him getting close to, taking flights on, and kicking ass with dragon-kind (and never slaying them. Again, wtf?). The pet is unnecessary and counter-intuitive to the goal.

All in all, I think it's time for Final Fantasy Online's dragoon to learn to stand on his own two feet. The potential for a pet-less DRG is far higher than a pet-DRG, imho. If he jumps, if he masters the spear, if he looks like a dragon and fights like a dragon... he is dragon knight. He is dragoon.

[Alerion]

Personally, I don't think the wyvern should come back as a constant pet. Maybe as a cooldown ability for a maximum burst scenario.

Dragon themed abilities and weapon skills are where it's at. I'd like to see a buff ability that has a dragon's silhouette appear behind the Dragoon on use, things along those lines.

[Dreamer]

Forget the wyvern, I just want sky-falling crit-happy attacks.

[Zaireeka2025]

See? This is why WOW's talents system is so great. Because it gives you the option of doing what YOU want. Play the way YOU want. SE tried to do something similar with Jobs as they become a specialization but you can still stay on a regular class and mismatch abilities but it is not as advanced as WOW's talent system.

WOW's version of a Dragoon would go something like this...

1st tree would be pet focused.... you can summon a Wyvern to fight by your side and you get passive and active abilities that enhance your pet's power.

2nd tree would be a lancer build where you have no pet but have very powerful attacks and jumps

3rd tree would probably be a tanking tree, with decent damage and heavy defense.

You can chose to play a Dragoon if that is what interest you most and with a talent tree you can chose to play the way you want. You don't need to be a Paladin to tank, you can tank with other classes using such a system since it enables different classes to fit different roles. You can even make hybrids.

I know i'll get hated by all the FFXI for making this post but i can't help to think that such a system or something similar would give us so much more freedom and individuality. My Dragoon doesn't need to be an exact copy of yours, i can do my own thing!

I was thinking exactly this. I scanned through this thread to make sure it wasn't already mentioned and Lo and Behold! My brother from another mother Oni you bada$$ muthatrucka. Seriously tho, well stated (you said it better than I would have). *daps*

[Scherwiz]

Why worry about a pet destroying the job, when stacking lancers on Ifrit will do more than enough damage. ^^



Put this in your sig if you do not want the dev team to have any control over anything!!!??!

[Tonkra]

Only from a Final Fantasy XI player's perspective. I provided links to the Dragoon article for the Final Fantasy series. Please educate yourself before making such an ignorant statement.

Ah and where the hell in the series we had classes like lancer or conjurer?
if you want to refer to "traditional" series? wonderful...

Lancer IS a dragoon with dragoon abillities! just except the "Jump attack".
is it because "dragoon" sounds cooler to you to let him appear as a dragoon than "lancer"?
The lancer has abillities like "Dragon Claw" (In the german version) how come that? maybe because the Lancer IS a dragoon wannabe? like the con is a whm?

what about a second job who is much more specified in polearms than the dragoon? lancemaster or what the hell ever? SE planned to implement two jobs for each class. so...


HEARTLESS people btw (and all together they did much damage, people often did not see the damage of drg because they didnt add up the damage from BOTH of them):

(btw. a wyvern at that size would be perfect)











A vote against wyvern pet is a vote against variety in classes!

Lancer IS a dragoon, he just isnt named like it.

dragoon without wyvern isnt that interesting to me... its just a pure melee class like lancer is now.. and i dont care about "blabla" classic final fantasys! there havent been classes like gladiator, thaumaturge etc. in old fashioned FF's too! so please stop it!

Lancer/dragoon like it is planned reminds me of pure melee fighters like the armsman in DAOC..
not really diversified to play

btw. the armsman was the less played class in DAOC. how come *rolleyes*

i have classes with polearms in other MMOs too... a wyvern pet not. that was really unique to FFXI.

Why worry about a pet destroying the job, when stacking lancers on Ifrit will do more than enough damage. ^^



Put this in your sig if you do not want the dev team to have any control over anything!!!??!

put this picture into your sig if you want the bards not to have any instrument to play on! its disturbing!
they just need to sing instead.

cut off all atmospheric things which the game could offer! cut off all variety! we dont need it, we need to optimize our pe** size instead. ;-) comon... a polearm wielder isnt that really unique which i havent seen in any other MMO.-

*sarcasm off*

Game Mechanic: If LNC gains a pet, he will have to become weaker as a balance. Getting weaker is only acceptable evolution if your goal is to become better at something else (such as healing, buffing, or tanking.) A dragon knight (again, an armored warrior who fights on land and mount; taking on the image and ferocity of a dragon) should never hold the goal of kicking less ass. Ever. Even for an adorable sidekick who does not enhance any of his aforementioned traditional characteristics or even act as his cavalry.

he would only become weaker on his weapon damage... Like any other hybrid!! but as a total he gains more damage with the wyvern on his side than he would ever do before..

for example maybe he would do about 15-20% less weapon damage than a lancer but therefore the wyvern would boost the damage of about 40% (wyvern damage)... (and the dragoon could perform weapon skill chains with their wyvern) because they would be a duo and you have to add up the damage and see the damage as a total. Dragoon would be a kick ass damage dealer as well with a wyvern pet. he would do more damage than a lancer although the lancer is more specified in polearms. Just as an example.

BUT only his weapon abillity would decrease SLIGHTLY.

why dont people get that? even in FFXI they didnt. its just simple logic.

So far, even Ma Chao of Dynasty Warriors fame fits the bill just fine, and he fought solo.

[/B]

Ok "wow" he seems to me like a common lancer foot soldier... not really important, not really powerful. would it be only the job description "dragoon" to let him appear more powerful? ah... understood..

really that picture is the mirror of pure tristesse in class variety... that picture i can make in every standard MMO which had a lancer class. (and we have yet a lancer class ingame with some "dragonic skills") just to let you know. its only the jump attack and the AF armor missing.

not exciting to me.

Besides...aren't we getting Drake mounts?

omg and you really DARE about refering to traditional Final fantasys?
Well let my lalafell ride on a machine like the gnomes in WOW!

[Lienn]

I would support the wyvern idea if it used a party slot.

It's simple...DRG without pet would use 1 party slot...DRG with pet out would use 2...this way DRG could be perfectly balanced and so does the pet, without having any of them weakened. IMO this mechanics should be added to every single pet class...the pet always using a PT slot and being even to any character in performance (also having lv up, gear abilities...very similar to the fellow NPC mechanics used in FFXI).

I voted yes for pet because i like having pets...i love soloing and FFXI already offered a very nice pet/fellow NPC system that could be used here too.

I can just imagine we using pet classes so 2 players would be even to a 4 players party (and even receiving the light party buff) or even 6 if they summon they companions too...would make the party system very flexible!

I'm not sure how many of you played seriously with the fellow NPC in FFXI, but i did played alot with 3 players + 3 fellow NPCs there, having them replacing missing Dmelee players in parties without any problems...and i do think this could be used here too...just imagine...you're in PT...someone need to leave. A player just change to a pet class and summon the pet to that spot and they keep going.

[Tonkra]

I would support the wyvern idea if it used a party slot.

It's simple...DRG without pet would use 1 party slot...DRG with pet out would use 2...this way DRG could be perfectly balanced and so does the pet, without having any of them weakened. IMO this mechanics should be added to every single pet class...the pet always using a PT slot and being even to any character in performance (also having lv up, gear abilities...very similar to the fellow NPC mechanics used in FFXI).

Not a really good idea.. a pet never ever replaces a real player. that would be just one more reason for all haters not to invite a drg.

i mean... a drg with a wyvern pet would do much more damage than a simple lancer although he would do about 15-20% less pole damage than a lancer... you have to look at the total damage and thats what it is about. maybe the wyvern attacks would add about 40% to the total damage? more damage in total than a lancer can do on his own.

so i dont understand people to get frightened about "woah i would get weaker when they're going to implement a pet". seems to me like "increasing my p** size"


i mean pet classes like "hunter" or "warlock" in WoW are for example are not less dangerous because they have a pet. On the contrary

[Nayt]

I would support the wyvern idea if it used a party slot.

It's simple...DRG without pet would use 1 party slot...DRG with pet out would use 2...this way DRG could be perfectly balanced and so does the pet, without having any of them weakened. IMO this mechanics should be added to every single pet class...the pet always using a PT slot and being even to any character in performance (also having lv up, gear abilities...very similar to the fellow NPC mechanics used in FFXI).

This seems to be the way they're implementing chocobo mounts. Since dragons are also preliminary mounts, I guess that's where we would want to see them. That way we wouldn't have to deal with DRG getting gimped by a pet.

Because (if it wasn't clear enough) I do not want a pet for DRG!

*edit*

Not a really good idea.. a pet never ever replaces a real player. that would be just one more reason for all haters not to invite a drg.

i mean... a drg with a wyvern pet would do much more damage than a simple lancer although he would do about 15-20% less pole damage than a lancer... you have to look at the total damage and thats what it is about. maybe the wyvern attacks would add about 40% to the total damage? more damage in total than a lancer can do on his own.

so i dont understand people to get frightened about "woah i would get weaker when they're going to implement a pet". seems to me like "increasing my p** size"


i mean pet classes like "hunter" or "warlock" in WoW are for example are not less dangerous because they have a pet. On the contrary

The pet wouldn't make the job stronger than if it was without a pet. They would scale the damage down so it was roughly about the same, the only difference being that your pet did a portion of that damage. So please stop talking about genitalia.