A proposed solution for having players become better players.

[Lunaxia]

In my experience... The people who complain that healers don't dps are also the ones that complain about a wipe because the healer tried to dps and then stuff went horribly wrong at an inopportune time...

It's not about healers throwing out DPS when they can and making a mess of things, it's about having the common sense to discern the appropriate time to do (or not do) so. This is the difference between an average healer and a good healer.

First phase of the final boss in Antitower? Definitely DPS.

On a low level dungeon where the tank can go several minutes without needing a Cure? DPS.

An extreme fight where the boss is charging up/ adds/ a phase there will be no incoming damage for the next however few minutes? DPS.

Everyone's about to take a heavy party-wide hit? Don't DPS.

Tankbuster coming up? Don't DPS. And so on.

With more ambiguous scenarios - i.e. there may be time to throw in some DPS but you're uncertain about the strategy or what sort of damage to expect, then that's your call. You can try it if you feel confident enough, but there's also nothing wrong with choosing to be careful and leaving it until you're more comfortable with the fight. Most people here complain about healers who don't DPS at all, not those who are simply cautious.

[Yurimi]

As far as the OP goes, unless the bonus is worthwhile it will be ignored, how many people queue up as tanks for that extra 5k gil from the roulette instead of the queue times or because they actually want to play the job? If the bonus is too big there will be a huge backlash and it will be nerfed to be trivial. Those who wish to improve generally will by asking and learning without any sort of measurable incentive while those who don't want to improve will just ignore it and continue on. So the system would be pointless and dead on arrival.

As far as the healer dps debate, if I trust the group (premades or at least 1 or 2 people one being the tank) I will dps however a rule of thumb is if you just stuck me into a group with 3 (or 7) people I never met, I am just going to assume you are all horrible people and play it safe. Don't like it? Get over yourself. I have never seen you before and likely will never see you again so if I don't dps its because I think you are bad and you have yet to do anything to make me think otherwise.

[mp-please]

An ingame parse by itself won't do much other than tell you numbers. Now when there's dps checks that require both dps to do more than spam their DoT abiliy over and over, that's when the reality-check comes in. Though it will help to quantify numbers and at least back up the times where healers/tanks are somehow outdpsing a dps.

The issue with dps checks is the lack of direct responsability. Raid wise there will always be someone with a parse up, it's mandatory for raiding even with SE policies being against it. A party that doesn't use a parse will always say "dps is low" or "dps needs to gear up more" or even push it to the healers when a dps check is failed, at the end of the day, without a number the player(s) who weren't pulling their weight will never know they were under the average dps for their class.

[Seraphix2407]

If SE ever implements a ingame parse, it's going to be such a reality slap into some people.

90% will end up depressed how bad they been doing all along, probably why SE wont make it happen and if they do, it will be gimmic. Look at raid finder, super flopp.

[Imoen]

It could do some sort of calculation between healing, overhealing (for those that do nothing but spam their cure over and over on a 95% hp tank) and dps.

But the big question is, why are people against something that promotes people to be better at their role? it;s not even adding a negative consequence for poor performance.

I don't really see how this promotes better play. If you were to set up something like this, it would need to be based on some sort of average expectancy and Squares idea of expectancy could be a lot lower than what the people promoting such a system would expect.

/peers into crystal ball ... Then there would be a thread on that.

[mp-please]

90% will end up depressed how bad they been doing all along, probably why SE wont make it happen and if they do, it will be gimmic. Look at raid finder, super flopp.

That's easy to explain though. Bad party compositions, bad players could pop up, way too many people buy runs on NA territory for the "duty complete" requirement to be trustworthy. Anyone who ever thought that raid finder would be successful must've never tried to DF a ex or any raid ever.

[FunkyBunch]

90% will end up depressed how bad they been doing all along, probably why SE wont make it happen and if they do, it will be gimmic. Look at raid finder, super flopp.

^^Probably this. I see level 60 players on BLM and I still teach them the correct AoE rotation. And these are people with every class at 60 and accounts that are 2+ years old.
Most people are bad at the game. But they don't know they're bad at the game.

[Mycow8me]

I did mention I could see it in dungeons except for extremely large pulls, but in a raid environment to have a healer pressed to DPS in order to get a bonus could potentially create more problems then it helps. Yes there are potential spots to DPS in a raid between mechanics but no one knows the future. That spent MP DPSing could cause a wipe in the future after a couple raises. Maybe the bard forgets to ballad, maybe you dont have a bard. Maybe your other healer goes down and now your in a situation with half MP and healing/trying to raise.

It can be very difficult to discern when to DPS sometimes even if it "looks safe now" it may cause a wipe later. This is why I say for anything other than a DPS clock mechanic, a healer dpsing is more of a risk when during a dps clock mechanic, it could actually save a wipe.

DOTs are usually the least risky forms of dps in raids. If I were to make this system, I would only factor in DOT dps for healers but thats just my opinion.

[loreleidiangelo]

I don't really see how this promotes better play. If you were to set up something like this, it would need to be based on some sort of average expectancy and Squares idea of expectancy could be a lot lower than what the people promoting such a system would expect.

/peers into crystal ball ... Then there would be a thread on that.

Of all the ideas I've seen along the lines of "making bads git gud", this one is definitely the most appealing to me. I prefer the tactic of rewarding exceptional players rather than punishing mediocre ones. Carrot rather than the stick, honey instead of vinegar, etc...as they say.

[Imoen]

Of all the ideas I've seen along the lines of "making bads git gud", this one is definitely the most appealing to me. I prefer the tactic of rewarding exceptional players rather than punishing mediocre ones. Carrot rather than the stick, honey instead of vinegar, etc...as they say.

This games target audience isn't just "the best of the best". So I anticipate any baseline established, would be a lot lower than what people who want that system would expect, its speculative, but it is a fair assumption.

The major flaw in this is first off, how it would be calculated? For example, if having a greater gap in enmity between the player in 2nd on the list is what determines this, then you run 8 man content, assuming both players REALLY want this bonus, both tanks would be fighting for hate. Is it based on the tank with top damage? Is it based on tank with most hate? If both bonus gives the same to allow for one to fall back and be an "off tank" and still perform and get a bonus, than in 4 man content that tank is going to always get a fat bonus, period, and honestly tanks already get this. Like I said you would need some sort of average for it to work. Anyway I hope that makes some sense.

Now you could argue that establishing some sort of base line of how you should be performing could help people. I don't see it like that at all, isn't that kind of the whole idea behind Ilvl restrictions? If you are of this gear level you "should" be able to get it done.

With that said I'm all for teaching players rolls better etc.. I'm just not sold that this would change anything.