End Game and Raid Finder

[Ilan]

Raid Finder is pretty useless considering how few people actually want to do raids in this game. The rewards just are not worth the effort when you find out that you basically need to raid for eight weeks or even ten weeks in order to collect one piece of equipment. By then, the new dungeons and better gear will have been released. The people who actually want to raid will spend a lot of time actually searching for a group. The problem is that a lot of these groups also do not want to train new raiders and would rather poach one from another group instead.

Its is worth the effort, if you have a working static and if you are willing to practice this stuff over and over until you get it done. If you don't want to spend much time in there or if you are not playing enough to join a static, then you just don't need the gear from there since you don't raid anyway. The gear from savage raids was always a special reward for the raiding people who are able to kill the savage raids to optimize their gear for the next raids. If you don't raid then you don't need it or deserve that gear.

And of course it is hard to find players with the raidfinder because most of the people have statics or are looking for statics since the raidfinder is nothing else than the dutyfinder and we all know what happens in there. Thats what people who want to raid try to avoid.

[Blanchimont]

I disagree. Many of the raids require you to raid multiple times and acquire multiple drops, some of which are restricted to once a week in order to actually get something out of it. On top of that, you probably have to invest three hours or more (assuming they are all successes) at a night in order to collect those rewards. You would have to maintain that raid group for two months. It is something that a lot of people just don't have the time for. This is what makes it not worth it and easier to just wait for the next patch.

[KarstenS]

On top of that, you probably have to invest three hours or more (assuming they are all successes) at a night in order to collect those rewards. You would have to maintain that raid group for two months.

Sound easy. But forgets about the time to practise the whole thing.

The practise is not a thing of hours, days or weeks. For the average raid group the practise part take 4-6 month, if they are clearing it before echo at all.

Take a look at the impatient people in party finder groups and you know why nobody seriously is queuing up in the raid finder (outside JP).

[Ilan]

I disagree. Many of the raids require you to raid multiple times and acquire multiple drops, some of which are restricted to once a week in order to actually get something out of it. On top of that, you probably have to invest three hours or more (assuming they are all successes) at a night in order to collect those rewards. You would have to maintain that raid group for two months. It is something that a lot of people just don't have the time for. This is what makes it not worth it and easier to just wait for the next patch.

For you it may be a waste of time but there are many players out there who play FF14 only because of the raids because EX roulette and wiping city is no endgame for them. And again: If people don't have the time to go raiding in a static, they don't need that gear because this is gear for raids. And of course you have to farm a while to have your gear, because if you would get it so fast as most of the lazy people want, they have nothing else to do then complaining how boring the game is. Not to mention that you farm even for the lore gear quite a while.

But as i can see, you don't like to raid, you never raided and you will never raid. Otherwise you wouldn't write about a waste of time.

[Blanchimont]

For you it may be a waste of time but there are many players out there who play FF14 only because of the raids because EX roulette and wiping city is no endgame for them. And again: If people don't have the time to go raiding in a static, they don't need that gear because this is gear for raids. And of course you have to farm a while to have your gear, because if you would get it so fast as most of the lazy people want, they have nothing else to do then complaining how boring the game is. Not to mention that you farm even for the lore gear quite a while.

But as i can see, you don't like to raid, you never raided and you will never raid. Otherwise you wouldn't write about a waste of time.

I just don't like raids in FFXIV because of arbitrary time limits and nearly every mistake leads to an unrecoverable one hit kill. I do raids in other games though. If their raids actually required skill instead of items, I would probably be more inclined to participate. The weekly drop limits are just a further discouragement and seeks to punish those that are actually willing to invest their time in a raid. If you actually want to get something out of raids, you have to succeed at it for a month or more straight before you even get anything out of it. On top of that, it's only available for end game gear and is pointless for everyone else. Games need to stop trying World of Warcraft's raid style and do something different instead of using lockouts to delay player progression.

[Ilan]

I just don't like raids in FFXIV because of arbitrary time limits and nearly every mistake leads to an unrecoverable one hit kill. I do raids in other games though. If their raids actually required skill instead of items, I would probably be more inclined to participate. The weekly drop limits are just a further discouragement and seeks to punish those that are actually willing to invest their time in a raid. If you actually want to get something out of raids, you have to succeed at it for a month or more straight before you even get anything out of it. On top of that, it's only available for end game gear and is pointless for everyone else. Games need to stop trying World of Warcraft's raid style and do something different instead of using lockouts to delay player progression.

Like i said you don't like to raid, at least here and then you don't have to care about the gear that you get there but its still not a waste of time for the people who like to raid here. I like the raids here because its no brain afk stuff and i am pretty sure that we are far away from raids in WoW since there are enough former WoW players who cry about our raids.

If the raids here are only possible for people with end game gear, how could groups beat it in 210 gear? And to be honest it is not hard to get at least ilvl 220 gear combined with some lore and wiping city gear but if that is already to much effort for you, then you are really not in the right game.

[Blanchimont]

Like i said you don't like to raid, at least here and then you don't have to care about the gear that you get there but its still not a waste of time for the people who like to raid here. I like the raids here because its no brain afk stuff and i am pretty sure that we are far away from raids in WoW since there are enough former WoW players who cry about our raids.

If the raids here are only possible for people with end game gear, how could groups beat it in 210 gear? And to be honest it is not hard to get at least ilvl 220 gear combined with some lore and wiping city gear but if that is already to much effort for you, then you are really not in the right game.

Then you should be trying to encourage new players to participate in raiding, not locking them out. As it stands, the current system serves as something to slow character progression and prevent them from taking part in the new raids.

You forget that Tomestone of Lore and Weeping City have lockouts. Even if I wanted to farm gear there, the game prevents me from doing so. I have been farming for ilvl 220 gear from Alexander Midas, but after several dozen runs, I'm still short 1 Shaft and 2 Bolts from getting a full set. However, raid groups on Ultros refuse to even talk to you unless you have a full set of ilvl 230+ already.

vs.



Noticed something?

You need alot of skill to get through the raid before echo and nerfs.

Just the later turns need more gear. Thats made to slow down the progression and I don't know any game, thats doing this different.

And that is something that needs to change. Just because other games are doing this doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. Maybe you'd have more people interested in raids if they could actually gear up to do them. I don't consider a lot of the raids skill because failing a mechanic is punished with instant death and instant death is never a test of skill. It's a test of memorization and if you take too long, you die anyways.

[Artorias112]

I like to ask what is your definition of skill? And what do you consider a raid fight that requires skill and not memorization? Isn'the the whole point of end game raiding to test the players ability to execute under extreme punishing condition? Like be able to react/perform the mechanics without failing. If the end game fight does not present that challenge then what is the point?

[KarstenS]

And that is something that needs to change. Just because other games are doing this doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do.

And when they do this, they can remove the chests. Whats the reason to get gear in the raid, when there is no need for said gear?

But if other people would love to see it accessible to players without a static than it shouldn't be your business.

Making it acessible to people without a static would mean: ease it up ... alot.

This should not be our business, when people ask to touch the onliest challanging content in the game?

[Ilan]

Then you should be trying to encourage new players to participate in raiding, not locking them out. As it stands, the current system serves as something to slow character progression and prevent them from taking part in the new raids.

You forget that Tomestone of Lore and Weeping City have lockouts. Even if I wanted to farm gear there, the game prevents me from doing so. I have been farming for ilvl 220 gear from Alexander Midas, but after several dozen runs, I'm still short 1 Shaft and 2 Bolts from getting a full set. However, raid groups on Ultros refuse to even talk to you unless you have a full set of ilvl 230+ already.


And that is something that needs to change. Just because other games are doing this doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. Maybe you'd have more people interested in raids if they could actually gear up to do them. I don't consider a lot of the raids skill because failing a mechanic is punished with instant death and instant death is never a test of skill. It's a test of memorization and if you take too long, you die anyways.

They already made it easier for newer players after they lifted the weekly lockouts from midas. So please don't tell me its not easier to get gear for newer players. And of course does this system slow you down a bit with purpose because SE earns money with your payed playtime.

And what do you want to change at the raidsystem? You need skill to progress through the mechanics or you wipe and you have to know your class good or you wipe. Both of it doesn't lock out new players btw. What else could they do that requires "skill"?

In other words you just say that you don't get your gear instant on 230+ and that the raids are more or less to hard for you, so its a waste of time.