Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[lulunami]

If a grading system was implemented, maybe add rewards like a Title or minion/mount/whatever and achievement points. The better you play, the more points you get towards superfluous reward. We want to give players positive reinforcement for playing great, not negative reinforcement for playing bad.

[WinterLuna]

snip

Yeah, it seems there's just 33 pages of the same arguments. I was just surprised to see it pop up again, I'm pretty sure I first commented this month's ago. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if there's nothing more to be said the thread needs to die already.

[Fevelle]

...or your idea of bad takes a very extreme higher level of badness for you to notice.

It surely does. To be honest, I think some people in this forum are just too concerned about everything. If just a little tiny piece of someone's playstyle is wrong, or if they make a single mistake, some players won't hold back at pointing unasked directions in the worst possible way (do this, do that).

I think everyone should learn to expect just the average of others while giving their best. Not only in-game, but in real life too.

[Dorander]

I think everyone should learn to expect just the average of others while giving their best. Not only in-game, but in real life too.

But the question is: "Who sets the bar for what is average?" That's what I gather is being discussed here and how to show and reward those for meeting or exceeding it. Some people consider average to be the absolute minimum amount of effort required (examples: " only heals, wont use defensive cooldowns, no songs, no goad, auto attacking ect). While others believe you should be doing the best of your ability and class every time.

When and how to do we hold others accountable for purposefully underacheiving in group settings? I honestly don't know. A grading system would be great, but as many have said it could be abused if it was ran by players.

My suggestion would be one that is hard coded into the game that was set by the devs. AKA if you do this much dps, avoid this much avoidable damage, ect in the dungeon as (insert job) you get the dungeon completion reward (example: this dungeon is worth 45 esoterics and 10 lore for completing it). Do more than your job required minimum and you get a bonus to that reward. don't meet the 'job goal' of the dungeon, you don't get the completion reward, just whatever items you happened to win while running it. This would definitely incentivize people to work harder while a dungeon/group setting instead of afk/autofollow/watch netflix.

[Miste]

It surely does. To be honest, I think some people in this forum are just too concerned about everything. If just a little tiny piece of someone's playstyle is wrong, or if they make a single mistake, some players won't hold back at pointing unasked directions in the worst possible way (do this, do that).

I can't say I've seen someone on the forums say that they will jump on someone for making one mistake or a tiny thing wrong with their playstyle...nor do I do that either. I do already expect average or a tad lower and even though I have gripes I like never kick people; though sometimes I leave on my own since that is a choice I am free to make for myself.

I am extremely patient and considerate about other players but there is a point where it becomes leeching like people who only sit and auto attack or players doing only 10-20 percent of the damage they should be doing...

I mean 20% or less of what they should be doing as a DPS class...is that not below average to you? I realize everyone has different expectations and ideas what average is but to me percentage wise average should be 40%-50% at least; considering 50% is in the middle and can even be obtained by simply using the 2.0 rotations (or even a non-optimal 2.0 rotation) if the 3.0 is a bit too hard at first to maintain.

As a 60 BLM I did a giggle test of being an Ice Mage for fun on a striking dummy. I actually did around 40-50 percent of the damage I should be doing and that is an exceptionally bad rotation to begin with. So basically these players doing sub 30% must either be sitting doing nothing at certain points because they are typing/watching tv/distracted or they are just auto attacking or using a rotation that consists of like one skill and likely a low power skill like maybe a BLM spamming nothing but scathe.

As some people have said even spamming one ability sometimes nets higher than or equal to 20% of their potential so...people are sitting there spamming one low power ability or just auto attacking and refusing assistance from more experienced players to learn their job to play more averagely. That's not caring about the other human beings in your group and the refusal to take a bit of advice or even make an attempt to try to do better is wasting the time of 3 other players every time this player enters group content.

Perfection isn't what anyone is asking for. Just being open to assistance from other players would be fine. Unless the person giving help is using rude language then (do this, do that) is just someone trying to help and getting defensive isn't the right response.

I think everyone should learn to expect just the average of others while giving their best. Not only in-game, but in real life too.

So I think everyone should learn to accept and try to use advice from other players without getting defensive over someone just offering experienced help. Accepting average in real life won't work for everything. When you join a job you are entry level and you must accept and try to use any advice more experienced workers at that job offer you and you should be thankful for it. Being average or below average at work and not showing any attempts to improve might eventually net you unemployment, but that is real life; this is just a game anyway.

[Watachy]

Just because you have not run into one doesn't mean others haven't. The bad DF groups exist. You just got lucky, you run with friends a lot, or your idea of bad takes a very extreme higher level of badness for you to notice.

We are even on the same data center and I have a long list of DF parties of people basically leeching off others to get their rewards because they are either completely oblivious to how to play their job even after getting to 60, some refuse to take any advice or help by completely ignoring you or even with some verbal abuse at you if you try, or they just don't care they are wasting their teammate's time. I've also leveled like 3 characters and have been playing for basically 3 years since the 3rd anniversary is about to hit this month.

See how different our experiences are? Saying you've never run into this problem yourself is kind of pointless to say.

As for the grading I personally don't think it will help much to reduce the amount of bad players, but I am just basically neutral I don't care if they add one or don't add one (I'd kind of like it added so I can have fun with it by challenging myself to do better but I do the SSS for that too). It will help the oblivious ones who don't realize they are doing so badly but don't know it and want to do better, but I think those types might be the minority of the bad players?

I'm only speculating but it seems to me most of the bad players are the ones who just don't care and/or verbally harass anyone who tries to give them advice to help them play better. To those types of bad players it is "their game" and "their time" even in group content which requires other real players to assist them to complete it (as in non-solo content); so they obviously don't have the mental capacity to actually care about and give consideration to anyone else in the group or their game or their time. It's all about them and they basically consider the rest of the group just NPCs to do the work to clear for them. Which is a totally wrong mindset to have in group teamwork environment.

So I do agree with you that the grading system won't really help these types of bad players. A grading system doesn't have to be a bad thing though. The OP specifically says that "This rank will be hidden and only for you to see" so it can help those who want to improve privately and help people try harder to obtain their personal best. If it is a personal thing I do not see what harm it can do. Oh edit but it should not segregate queues based on rank; that is not needed.

Finally someone who understand the point of this system god those white knigths are annoying.
If you wanna experience bad DF please, come in a EU data center and enjoy the Germans and frenchs DF runs, so painfull.

[SaitoHikari]

I still think that the best way to implement something like this (well, the grading system only, NOT the way it affects queues) would be to have it affect mentors only at first, just as a test.

And then we'll watch as 90% of the crowns suddenly disappear. I say this as a mentor myself - If I'm not performing at a level expected of an actual mentor, I don't think I'd be deserving of wearing the crown at all. I certainly wouldn't be qualified to give out advice if I was really that bad and everyone else saw your performance publicly.

[Watachy]

I still think that the best way to implement something like this (well, the grading system only, NOT the way it affects queues) would be to have it affect mentors only at first, just as a test.

And then we'll watch as 90% of the crowns suddenly disappear.

The mentor system is useless, painfull and a mess... I don't really wanna try on something like that.
80% of the mentors are bad players themselves, on Moogle at least

[Khemorex]

Finally someone who understand the point of this system god those white knigths are annoying.
If you wanna experience bad DF please, come in a EU data center and enjoy the Germans and frenchs DF runs, so painfull.

i do rouletes daily , its not that "bad" like u want to make it sound :P

edit : maybe u forgot how it is to be a new player or not confident with something new :P

[Watachy]

i do rouletes daily , its not that "bad" like u want to make it sound :P

edit : maybe u forgot how it is to be a new player or not confident with something new :P

Never said it was terrible, but i got like 2 or 3 terrible runs a week, with people harrassing others, leaving the run, just using 20% of their skillset.
I won't be rude to someone that respect me and with i can communicate.
Actually i hate when people don't say anything like "im new" "can you explain this boss/pattern" etc. I always propose to explain before the pull, if people wanna discover the pattenrs by themselves, fine no problem with it. When nos one respond after a wipe, and the people that wiped the party don't say anything i mean a "sorry fucked up" or just "can you explain me something here ?" isn't that difficult to put on the chat <.<

The real problem here is the lazy people that don't wanna put their weight into the run and just wanna get PL. I mean fuck it, everyone trying to play normally and then there is this idiot that don't respect anyone but just being afk and doing a single spell.
I need a solution for those people, that's the only thing i hate into the game actually (and the grinding system, but that's not the point) so if a grading system will permit me to not play with this kind of players, hell yeah give it to me !