Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[Andevom]

I think instead something should be offered that teaches players. Teach them why they are "bad" and how to fix it. Either way no matter what the devs put in if people get discouraged they will quit so I don't ever see them putting in something like that.

Only so much of that feels appropriate for an MMO. It'd be kind of awkward if you failed at, say, Titan, and some Protip came up like "Trying avoiding those Landslides, they'll knock you off"! Too hand-holdy.

Guildhests essentially do this though, but bad players don't actually apply what you're supposed to learn in those to other instances.

[mp-please]

People keep saying a "majority" of players are doing these terrible numbers, but I just am NOT seeing that. I see such a small percentage of players doing as poorly as you state here that it might be a week between DF's (if I'm running them regularly) before I see someone so bad/lazy that it affects a dungeon run.

It's hard to tell if people are doing what they suppose without a parse, a dps check can be cleared because it requires 4000 dps but it doesn't change the fact one player might be pushing 1800 and and others 1000, maybe even less if healers are helping out dpsing. After all healer dps isn't accounted for dps checks so everything they do is a added help.

So why not reward the player that did 1800 and even those healers who used their job to the full extent and dpsed as well?

Read what I said again, pay special attention to the second sentence. The third sentence is about what it would of been more accurate for you to say but refer to the second sentence in regards to what I claimed you said of which I used your exact words.

If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

AKA, players who are unaware their rotation is wrong.

The issue comes when people that don't care about their rotations or mechanics start leaking into content that needs it, the usual victim being extreme primals.

The actual issue being people who do not want to improve.

And then there's the usual reaction of players when someone tells them they need to improve with the majority insulting and use their sub their gameplay excuse with only a small fraction actually looking into the SSS or player guides to improve

Both types of players mentioned

Where did i mention perfect rotations and where am i misleading people?

[Snugglebutt]

Where did i mention perfect rotations and where am i misleading people?

You keep using the 'majority' argument without enough evidence provided that supports your claim, the reality is you cannot claim such and not mislead because you have not even played with a majority of FF14 players or even spoken to the majority. Even if you try to use the excuse of personal experience as a reference for judging the majority of players based on a such a microscopic sample size you still cannot make the claim about what the majority of players are doing in your argument without you being misleading. Fact is you do not know what the majority do or think, what we do know based on comments on here is that once in a while people will come across such people but once in a while does not equal majority and neither does your personal experience in terms of the majority of people who play this game. Your using the 'majority' claim to justify and add fictional weight to your position whether intentional or not.

[mp-please]

.

TOS prevents me from posting actual parse numbers on the OF, wish we could with others player censored so they can be used for educational purposes but can't. You can't prove either that >1k dps players are the minority due to this same reason.
Consult healer/tank/dps horror stories.
Steps of faith got nerfed due lack of dps and mechanic awareness.
Huge thread about people asking for SE to not nerf weeping city of mhach regardless people complaining it was too hard.
The amount of people stuck on the final steps of faith add phase up to the point they were blaming people who werent standing in the circles even though that does absolutely nothing.
Recent thread saying final steps of faith dps checks are too much.
Odin 1st few weeks on release was a gigantic pain to clear due to the overall dps check.
Overall DF fame for anything harder than expert/normal(hard)mode trials.

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Your resorting to a god of gaps style argument now, just because I cannot prove the majority do not do what you claim does not mean your claim the majority does is true. What I can prove is only a minority is complained about on here who do what you claim. Even if you were allowed to link and show your parser data it still wouldn't prove your claim the majority of people who play this game do what you said, your personal experience is microscopic compared to the amount of people who play this game. I also do not think the majority of people who play this game has even attempted the final steps of faith yet which again is something neither you or I can prove.

All of your points fail to prove the majority of people who play this game do not care about proper rotations. The negative connotations towards DF does not equate to a majority, it could very well be a ripple in a pond...the stone dropped in which caused the ripple is still potentially small but others might see the ripple and assume it was bigger than in reality it was. Stop using the majority argument to add weight to your position when in fact you cannot prove what it is you are trying to put forward as factual. I cannot claim the majority do not do what you say but I can say for sure your claim that the majority does is also nothing more than an assumption which you cannot truthfully prove.

To proclaim your earlier statement I just mentioned as a statement of fact is misleading regardless of intentional or not.

[Leigaon]

I am happy someone took so much time off of their day to try to find a solution to the problem. This could work out, but at the same time I don't know if it will change anything that much. You have people that are S-ranked, going into Duty Finder. Most of the 60 content that is used for Duty Finder isn't that bad to run through. Even though you can sign up for various things, if someone is serious enough they put up a Party Finder for a farm. I think more and more S-ranks will go into party finder, forcing the lower ranks to either improve (win!) or sneak themselves into the party finder. Already in party finder there is item level checks, proof of clears..this could add another check point. The system could easily make it go from less DF to a PF overhaul.

By all I means I agree that JP have it right, the DF should be for those who want to get in, get out and get it done. Let the party finder go for those who want to learn. I think the grading system could be abused, or worked around..which would cause the same issues we have now. It may work for a bit though, or could work entirely as you posted and be great. If it was like that, you'd hear no crying from me. Though when something is presented, the good and bad need to be weighed out. If you do not see a bad side to the situation, whether it is small or big, then there's no point to any of this...

The big issue is to get people to care, evolve themselves in terms of skill gradually so that when they hit that EX wall they may die a few times but can adjust. Also, to get Duty Finder in NA land to be useful, so that someone like most of these people who have posted can go into an EX run and get their gear with users that are well versed in the mechanics, while being able to prove they can at least get to a certain number for DPS.

The guildhests did a wonderful job, for the most part, with dealing with what you're going to be doing, mix that with the series of instances that teaches you how to do your job as you level up, should..have been enough. It would let you know to flash groups, or dps focus, healer focus. What I think hinders everything you learn is that on your way up, the mobs really don't give you the challenge you need to be forced to perform your tasks. Little damage is taken, less healing is needed, the DPS can be very basic and still push through. I feel that is part of it. Mix that up with EX like mechanics on dungeon bosses, to help players learn as they go. Lol tethers at level 30...

I also feel the striking dummies are a wonderful place to test this out, but should be a requirement to unlocking the content. This would make them upgrade themselves on their own.

Then again what I do like about your grading system is that it tries to put together the best matched team skill wise. So a group of players at A rank would all be within the same skill level, and if they got a S in there..well that's one less person they don't have to worry about. So there is promise to it all...then again thinking of the bad it could just make things worse. It would be a gamble, and would have to be sure that it is worth the risk. Then again, there are some people you just can't make care...

[Waterdeep]

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

[mp-please]

All of your points fail to prove the majority of people who play this game do not care or do not know about proper rotations which is what you said.

Fixed
You're so blind over my use or majority that you're misinterpreting my whole argument.

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

We already do that, it's called a static.

[Snugglebutt]

Fixed
You're so blind over my use or majority that you're misinterpreting my whole argument.

Do not edit my post in your quotes. I said what I said, people are free to go back and read my actual post and your pretending I said something else through misleading quotes as though they came from me will get you reported.

[bass9020]

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

^this pretty much.

I no longer run DF with randoms unless I absolutely need too, I have people I run with that I know are competent players so I roll with them most of the time.