Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[ADVSS]

Another example was back in beta?, the lvl 15 MSQ had people just wiping and so many dead bodies outside. It could be won, so it wasn't impossible. But then release comes and look what we have, an incredibly easy snoozefest version of that fight...

Oh yeah I totally remember that one, had a friend that was having issues with it, the gladiator quests were quite a bit more difficult than release, i think particularly the 15 one. when the game launched i was incredibly confused how much easier it was to complete

[Normalizer]

Not Elitist: A word of advice, if you stand between the DPS and tank and use the card on yourself, you can give the buff to the whole party (after using extended royal road).
Player A: ooooh ok, ...
Player B: stop being an elitist, he is still learning let he enjoy the game!
Non Elitist:....

Fixed it for you And yeah it is basically what happened with me once before when i was in satasha story with a brand new tank and a veteran healer:

...loaded in, tank just keep attacking one add and ignore everything else, with sprout icon so we can easy guess he is new...
Me: tank, you should probably use flash more often, it will help keeping those monsters on you.
....
Me: tank, you need to keep those monster on you too, so they don't attack other. Try iterate through them...
Healer: geez it's ok, it's only satasha, let he has his first experience!
....
.... the run kept going on, we have a tank who only attack one mobs at a time till last boss, then when we downed it:
Me: tank, you really should try to find some guide on tanking in general, it will help in later dungeons.
Healer: you jerk! stop tell him what to do, let him enjoy the game how he want it! *then quit the dungeon*
Tank: eh... who is that tank you keep talking about?
Me: ...
*this followed by me giving him a short description on what are the roles in dungeon, what is the general thing he has to do as tank, plus suggestion to google it or find out more info from fc/forum*

Oh well, so, white knight, please be careful, you might not always be helpful. (What will happen to this kind of player when they get to higher level dungeon, when people are less tolerant? Getting kicked from party or telling off from other player? Will you be there to defense them?)

[bass9020]

Glad they improved it.

It wasn't improved it was nerfed to a 1 click fight because people couldn't pass it the first time they entered, even though most could. Y'all are the reason this game is such a face roll.

[Cakekizyy]

Game was faceroll before I came here, but ease of play is why I started playing.

[RiceisNice]

I didn't know it was anyone else's decision but mine how I play. If that's the case, what triggers a player to ask someone else how they should play their game? Where do we find these people to ask?

Go looking for them or be open to response. You keep bringing up hypotheticals where apparently everyone is a elitist; you'd probably wouldn't be receptive to any sort of advice to begin with. It's not just playing a game, but playing a game with other people. Do you not think your opponent would get a bit upset if you're moving your knight in a diagonal shape in chess?

Game was faceroll before I came here, but ease of play is why I started playing.

Easy to play or easy to get into? Are you content with people being able do group content by spamming 1 ability over and over and ignoring telegraphed aoes, at level 60? This is important because this is the distinction I'm trying to get people to understand with this sort of discussion.

[Mattelot]

As I've said before, there are people who do not understand the word, but those people are few and far between, at least from my experience. I know people say your mileage may vary but I see a lot of stories on here that seem so far-fetched.

As far as your experience in Sastasha, it also depends on exactly what you said to Player A. It's easy to take offense if someone does not say something well. I know we're not all wordsmiths but a guy who says he tries to offer advice sounds just like the Elitist I mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of anything.

[Mattelot]

Go looking for them or be open to response. You keep bringing up hypotheticals where apparently everyone is a elitist; you'd probably wouldn't be receptive to any sort of advice to begin with.

Go looking for them where? Is there a website where you can ask people how they want you to play your own game?

I never said everyone is an elitist. I challenge you to show me where I ever said that. So your ad hominem remarks are a wash.

It's not just playing a game, but playing a game with other people. Do you not think your opponent would get a bit upset if you're moving your knight in a diagonal shape in chess?

You're comparing apples to oranges. If I did that, the person might ask why I did that. I doubt they would just jump on the warpath. I don't mad at people over games. I guess that's the difference between you and I.

[RiceisNice]

Then please stop labeling everything as an elitist like you have been. You keep putting it in the wrong context which is why we keep having this boomerang discussion. I sincerely doubt that tank example considered him an elitist, despite being so oblivious. But the healer seemed content with him staying oblivious and that we should let it pass. The tank ended up being receptive to advice and that in general would make for a better community if people encourage and promote good play, rather than bad/obliviousness

[Normalizer]

As I've said before, there are people who do not understand the word, but those people are few and far between, at least from my experience. I know people say your mileage may vary but I see a lot of stories on here that seem so far-fetched.

As far as your experience in Sastasha, it also depends on exactly what you said to Player A. It's easy to take offense if someone does not say something well. I know we're not all wordsmiths but a guy who says he tries to offer advice sounds just like the Elitist I mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of anything.

Yes, and even if you use the best words coated in sugar, for some people they will still find it bitter and aggressive, like why the hell you need to "tell other people how they should play" in the first place? Should we all stop giving advice then and let the clueless continue be clueless?

And you know what will most likely happen if a tank have no idea how to tank get into brayflox or stonevigil, or a healer who do not know how to heal? Most likely they will get kicked cause they cannot adapt quick enough to something they should have practiced in all the lower level dungeons before just because no one told them what they should do so they stay clueless for 15 level. And before you tell me that there will still be people who have enough patient to keep wiping in brayflox and getting through it with those clueless player, ask yourself if DF is such a holy place, if we have that many people like that those threads wouldn't exist?

[RiceisNice]

Apples and oranges are still fruits. If you assumed that the person in chess isn't going on a warpath, why would you assume that sastadha example would have a potential elitist reply despite being given the context of the discussion?