Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[loreleidiangelo]

A few times in other threads I've seen it mentioned that gradually upping the difficulty of class quests/solo MSQ scenarios might work some magic towards improving the skill of the playerbase bit by bit. I think I'd prefer that to most of the suggestions I've seen here and in other threads which only serve to arbitrarily assign a "value" to a person (which is a bit ludicrous given that ultimately, this is just a game).

Things like, removing the raid-boss HP levels and infinite MP spam-heal NPCs from solo instances, and tuning the difficulty such that if you don't perform at LEAST a moderately competent AOE/single-target rotation you will die...that kinda thing. Tanks and heals would have to be given their own quests that focus more on protecting/healing an NPC while still dealing out enough damage so that the NPC doesn't get overrun by mobs or something.

Just spitballing; I've hardly thought about this concretely or anything. Imagine if after the MSQ trial of 3.3, you got a solo instance involving beating a certain someone's ragey side...imagine it being fairly challenging, but extremely epic and rewarding once you cleared, with awesome music and engaging cutscenes. I get that dev funds are limited, but I feel like gradually easing players into performing better and rewarding them for doing well is a much better method than what essentially amounts to a DF-specific blacklist.

[Sardonia]

The only question I have is where are all these people getting terrible DF groups from? I have been playing this game over a year now and have never truly run into a really bad DF group. Sure some new people here and there just figuring this out and such which may make a run take a few minutes longer, but no really big deal. Again I do not see an issue here. The only thing I see is people who want some kind of grading system or dps meters etc. is to compete with one another and show how wonderful they are. I have seen it in many other games and to me it just destroys the fun in things.

[MajinkenSouga]

I'd love to see a grading system in place. At least some way to tell who isn't performing as well as they should. However, I can see it being abused by some people in duty finder content. Like harassing the player who is doing less damage than the WHM or the SCH who isn't contributing any damage at all while doing worse healing than the WHM.

But people can just report the harassing player who would rather be a jerk and use offensive language towards other people than giving them proper constructive feedback on how they could do better.

[Lexia]

I think you people are making this into something bigger then it really is there are not really that many bad players in the overall player base. Say there 500,000 people playing and 10% are bad players and 10% are elitists that 100,000 of the players still leaves 400,000 people player that are decent-good playing. The bad apples are always going stand out more then good players with the way the community is, it just the way life is in general actually. Slow to praise someone but quick to tell them how much they suck though.

[StouterTaru]

I'd love to see a grading system in place. At least some way to tell who isn't performing as well as they should. However, I can see it being abused by some people in duty finder content. Like harassing the player who is doing less damage than the WHM or the SCH who isn't contributing any damage at all while doing worse healing than the WHM.

It doesn't have to be something shown to the entire party, a simple scoreboard at the end like in PvP would be more than enough. Show personal damage done, damage healed, and damage taken, as well as last week's averages/highs for people playing your job/role. Add in a run time for the dungeon, with last week's average and fastest times.

[Mattelot]

I can't play soccer very good, but still I want to take part in every match available.
But I don't want to train, nor do I want any advice or any strategic/tactic jabbering.
I don't even want to know which position i should play... If I want to go keeper, I just do it and if I decide to do that with my hands tied behind my back you should better live with it.
Everyone who tells me how I should hit the ball to make him go where I want or whoever tells me in what direction I have to play is an elitist!


People in this thread.

You're very mistaken. Nobody in this thread is like that at all. People who offer advice see the word "elitist" and jump on the bandwagon. Offering help is not being an elitist. It's when someone has to be rude and condescending about it. It's when someone has to make fun of someone because they don't agree with how they play and be part of the problem rather than the solution.

Not Elitist: A word of advice, if you stand between the DPS and tank and use the card on yourself, you can give the buff to the whole party (after using extended royal road).
Player: ooooh ok, thanks!
Non Elitist: You're welcome

Elitist: Uh... why are you not giving that buff to everyone else? Seriously, stupid noobs need to unsubscribe...
Player: I'm still learning how to do this, geez... don' be an elitist...
Elitist: No, there is no excuse for that type of play. You should have done your research before playing. You're a burden to everyone in this group. *runs to the forum and tells people that he was called an "elitist" when he was just offering someone help*

[RiceisNice]

The design of content in this game is fine. It's the systems around it that fail it.

I'd disagree; whether it's the cause or the effect of it, both the design and the (lack of) systems encourage the mindset of wanting to play how you want (regardless of the detriment to the party), being given a pass for not understanding the basics, or having an absurdly high expectation (through the form of vote kicking for "playstyle differences).

Our right to play this game how we want and to protect that right is also perfectly fine. That is really the most basic right we all have.

That's also fine, however it's not always something you'd necessarily always want to encourage or promote the bad behavior (which is reoccurring in these sort of discussions). Because people are often out to assume the worst out of the other (absurdly high expectations, don't want to play with bad people, etc etc) or probably applying it in a broad sense which causes those implications.

The point everyone misses is that if you want to fix this issue you address the origin of the problem. You don't get caught up in what this topic has become. The origin of this problem has nothing to do with the content. It has nothing to do with player interactions. You go back to before any notion of how we want to play this game is established within our minds and you influence that. It's like Inception -- you have to go deep into their mind, plant an idea at the most basic level, and let it blossom into a result.

For an MMO, I really do not feel that this is the case. People are already going into the game with mindsets, playstyle, and overall attitude of their own, which is going to change in regards to how the game is presented to them (Moba and team games promote more of a competitive attitude, and a higher interaction with their team, positive and negative, for example). What we have right now is a game that is giving you the information that you need to perform your role, but not actually reinforce it through the content. Solo instances hold your hand for the most part, most dungeons are tuned so low (with very few exceptions, which are optional) that people are never really held accountable. It goes back to my first point which I still disagree with you on; design of the game has a factor on why this is a thing. It's a multitude of factors, not just one.

It doesn't build a bridge between the two extremes of players. Rather than force a community to sink or swim together, it deepens the fracture between the extremes by breeding more toxicity at the lower end and fostering even more elitism at the upper end. And, what we'll see is playing out in this topic -- the reasonable moderates just get caught in the whirlpool of conflict between "bads" and "elitists."

This is entirely my point. From my perspective, I'm asking for players to be able to do their 1-2-3 mechanics or not stand in aoe, and I get people telling me that's an elitist attitude or to shove off (both ingame and in this discussion right now). Likewise you have a leafer at level 38 in corn, then you have level capped people berating on them for not using blizzard III. I try to help people get better in instances, espesically when it means that they can play their jobs more efficently and speed up the overall progress, and it's not like I try to come off as condescending, but increasingly, more often than not I'd get told to shove off or they'd straight up ignore me (and typically at that point I usually assume the worst that they are botting when other things are considered), and likewise in this topic. It's like there's almost no attempt to exercise a reasonable judgement inbetween both sides or even acknowledge where the problem actually is (the extremes), but instead applying a broad stroke to every scenario (rather than the exception, but instead both sides are causing those exceptions to become more and more regular from what I see)

[Mattelot]

both the design and the (lack of) systems encourage the mindset of wanting to play how you want

I didn't know it was anyone else's decision but mine how I play. If that's the case, what triggers a player to ask someone else how they should play their game? Where do we find these people to ask?

[Cakekizyy]

Another example was back in beta?, the lvl 15 MSQ had people just wiping and so many dead bodies outside. It could be won, so it wasn't impossible. But then release comes and look what we have, an incredibly easy snoozefest version of that fight...

Glad they improved it.

[papichulo123]

so pf for learning df for farm?