Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[FinaSel]

I'm going to repeat it since it got buried earlier in the thread.

I'm against a grading system, but I do think a chart at the end of a dungeon showing the breakdown of damage dealt, damage taken, healing done, and metrics like that would be fun.

Kind of like in PvP.
I wouldn't mind that either.

I wonder why they have this info in PvP but not in dungeons or raids?

[Archaell]

Kind of like in PvP.
I wouldn't mind that either.

I wonder why they have this info in PvP but not in dungeons or raids?

Probably because pvp is competitive and pve is coo... should be cooperative. Yet it does not work so well outside of the Japanese society, unfortunately.

[Hayward]

Probably because pvp is competitive and pve is coo... should be cooperative. Yet it does not work so well outside of the Japanese society, unfortunately.

I'd dare to say that's the case because of hyper-competitive people who want junk like this integrated into Duty Finder. People who want content that only 10% of the population can play. MLG wannabes who think their backsides don't stink.

[Archaell]

I'd dare to say that's the case because of hyper-competitive people who want junk like this integrated into Duty Finder. People who want content that only 10% of the population can play. MLG wannabes who think their backsides don't stink.

You see, that is something that I don't understand.

Let's say that we would get some kind of junk implemented that would separate mlg wannabes from the rest of the community. Shouldn't both sides be happy then?

I would think your usual player who does not care about performance would love an option to not play with the mlg wannabes.

[Snugglebutt]

You see, that is something that I don't understand.

Let's say that we would get some kind of junk implemented that would separate mlg wannabes from the rest of the community. Shouldn't both sides be happy then?

I would think your usual player who does not care about performance would love an option to not play with the mlg wannabes.

We have DF and we have PF, we have a method for non-douchébag skilled players but also douchébag elitists to limit their interactions with the people they might view as a lower form of life, the people they might view as something that they want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe. SE have also come up with the option to block new players from PF if tick the relevant achievement box when set up the party in PF. We do not need this additional vindictive and negative grading system which further segregates the community plus also punishes the casuals you hate so much on top of the tools you have already been given to segregate yourself from the majority of this community.

[Archaell]

We have DF and we have PF, we have a method for non-douchébag skilled players but also douchébag elitists to limit their interactions with the people they might view as a lower form of life, the people they might view as something that they want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe. SE have also come up with the option to block new players from PF if tick the relevant achievement box when set up the party in PF. We do not need this additional vindictive and negative grading system which further segregates the community plus also punishes the casuals you hate so much on top of the tools you have already been given to segregate yourself from the majority of this community.

Grading system itself is not vindictive nor negative. Since the beginning games counted score to show you how well you do.

I am rather not going to talk about Ragnarok's PF. You can check it out for yourself how much players care about the community and following the PF objectives... cold hearted machine can better judge players than the players can judge themselves.

How would this system punish casuals? By matching them up with other casuals? Idk if I understand it correctly. Is being matched with casuals a punishment?

My bet is that most of the players who want the player skill to increase are more worried about players who "pay their sub" and watch Netflix rather than cooperative casuals.

[mp-please]

I'd dare to say that's the case because of hyper-competitive people who want junk like this integrated into Duty Finder. People who want content that only 10% of the population can play. MLG wannabes who think their backsides don't stink.

You seem to misunderstand the purpose of a measure like this, a lot of people seem to have misunderstood it to be fair.

We currently have the majority of the playerbase not even trying to do a proper rotation, you just have to turn on a parse on a regular expert run and you'll see the majority of healers doing 0, tanks under 400 since they don't change stances when damage isn't that great and dps who either just auto attack or play their class like a piano doing as much or even worse dps than the tank. Adding a system where players get rated at the end of the fight, it doesn't even have to be saved on their characters, maybe a achievement system for rewards, where it doesn't even have to say you suck, it just has to show their place on the overall dps and say who's in the top. If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

Now how is this a issue? On the current daily content it's not.
The current content supposed to cater to casuals doesn't have a single punishing mechanic if failed which only promotes laziness. The issue comes when people that don't care about their rotations or mechanics start leaking into content that needs it, the usual victim being extreme primals.

When a casual player attempts to run harder content it gets bashed by this gigantic wall of content difficulty where dps, tank and heal exist and they simply don't have the minimum skill level required to tackle that content, yes they meet the minimum ilevel, but that minimum ilevel assumes the player will be doing it's rotation properly and have a proper mechanic knowledge and this is why the current weeping city was so hard for some players, it's not even hard but it assumes players can do content which the majority of the casuals don't.

And then there's the usual reaction of players when someone tells them they need to improve with the majority insulting and use their sub their gameplay excuse with only a small fraction actually looking into the SSS or player guides to improve and why all this hostility? It's the other players with 3rd party programs, which are against the TOS to use, that tell them that they need to improve, not the game, so the average player who already thinks they're playing properly will think "who the hell is this guy to tell me how to play, I'll report him for using 3rd party parses" than actually taking the hint and improve.

Yes some players are pretty aggressive when telling other that they suck, but let's be fair, anyone that tried to pug a extreme primal will know how frustrating it is due to underperforming players and players who outright lie about their progress in the fight causing wipes, and this will drag on for hours, maybe even days or weeks.

[Eldevern]

...

Said like that it is pretty understandable.

But what about people who just sounds like "Just f*** leave MY game!". It is normal some people reply them almost "Just f*** off yourself".

Following your way, then there is no need for any kind of competitive spirit nor to objective competitivity as a grading system. Just add some kind for personnal -private- statistics with max, average and your position is enough. No grading system in requiered. Now I'm not sure dps parser is the right system for healers and tanks.

Levelling quests shows they are able to create some realistics situations, maybe they should add something like normal, hard, extrem traning mode for each quests and offer the possibility to redo quests. BUT I have some kind of doubt many people will try them.

Anyway you will never force people to look for some kind of competitions if they rather come for some kind of role play.

PS : To be fair, this problem was not supposed to happend since there is a minimum ilvl for content. But hunt gear create a problem since it is easy to get that gear. Plus it doesn't solve the problem for people who have the level (both skill and ilvl) and use content to get gear for one of their other job that they don't manage that well.

[MaeIsMean]

We currently have the majority of the playerbase not even trying to do a proper rotation, you just have to turn on a parse on a regular expert run and you'll see the majority of healers doing 0, tanks under 400 since they don't change stances when damage isn't that great and dps who either just auto attack or play their class like a piano doing as much or even worse dps than the tank. Adding a system where players get rated at the end of the fight, it doesn't even have to be saved on their characters, maybe a achievement system for rewards, where it doesn't even have to say you suck, it just has to show their place on the overall dps and say who's in the top. If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

People keep saying a "majority" of players are doing these terrible numbers, but I just am NOT seeing that. I see such a small percentage of players doing as poorly as you state here that it might be a week between DF's (if I'm running them regularly) before I see someone so bad/lazy that it affects a dungeon run.