Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[RiceisNice]

Play on a JP server then. What you want for DF is what you already have for PF in that you can create a group tailored to your needs and your specifications, your desired mentality, goals or gear/skill levels.

Should we have no expectations of the basic foundation of gameplay in DF, then? Should the lack of performance be a justifiable thing on DF? I don't think anyone wants that to be the case, let alone have DF content tuned so that its passable. It creates that severe gap in ski and eventually boredom

[Snugglebutt]

Should we have no expectations of the basic foundation of gameplay in DF, then? Should the lack of performance be a justifiable thing on DF? I don't think anyone wants that to be the case, let alone have DF content tuned so that its passable. It creates that severe gap in ski and eventually boredom

Outside of EX and Savage most DF content tends to be okay for most people, most players exceed the basic foundations of gameplay argument you are trying to use as an excuse and it is only the occasional bad player or bad group. They are the exception and not the rule. Stop pretending you only want people to grasp the basic foundations of gameplay, most people in DF already do so and a few bad apples do not change that. These days elitists knowing that they are despised tend to hide behind the excuse "We just want them to know the basic fundamentals of their class" when in reality what they really want is "We want to punish anyone who does not far exceed the basic fundamentals of their class".

[Brian_]

Play on a JP server then. What you want for DF is what you already have for PF in that you can create a group tailored to your needs and your specifications, your desired mentality, goals or gear/skill levels.

If you didn't notice, I already do.

I spent much of 2.X and some of early 3.0 on Gilgamesh and transferred after. Since, I have never had a run where someone was inexcusably bad.

The run starts, everyone gives their greetings, and then they go about their business. Completely courteous, completely focused. Almost everyone has a general grasp on when to AoE, their single target rotations, and almost every healer DPSes during downtime -- everyone actually does their job and relatively well. In the event there is a wipe, people apologize even if it wasn't really their fault, give advice courteously, and keep things civil.

Recently, I joined a DF for Sephirot EX. The fight starts, you get the standard strategy macro, people pick their positions, and we cleared in 3-4 attempts even with a few bonus players. Everyone's performance is about where it should be (DPS are all over 1200 with the highest at ~1700, tanks are 700-900, healers are keeping everyone alive just fine while chipping in a few hundred DPS combined), Everyone says thank you, good-bye, and leaves. Painless.

What I don't get is why people want to have a bad time in DF. Why do people want slower runs, more potential toxicity and drama, more wiping, and more frustration. You play a game to have fun. Why are you making it harder for everyone to do so? That's the sense of mutual respect people just lack on the NA servers.

[RiceisNice]

What I don't get is why people want to have a bad time in DF. Why do people want slower runs, more potential toxicity and drama, more wiping, and more frustration. You play a game to have fun. Why are you making it harder for everyone to do so? That's the sense of mutual respect people just lack on the NA servers.

This is the big thing, and I feel that the side that is advocating against any sort of policing is not understanding the fact that we are talking about those exceptions (which unfortunately from my past experience, is becoming increasingly more common on DF) and that it shouldn't be given a pass, not in the realm of "you aren't playing to my standard, you get vote kicked".

[Brian_]

This is the big thing, and I feel that the side that is advocating against any sort of policing is not understanding the fact that we are talking about those exceptions (which unfortunately from my past experience, is becoming increasingly more common on DF) and that it shouldn't be given a pass, not in the realm of "you aren't playing to my standard, you get vote kicked".

Well like I said earlier, this specific type of policing is counter productive. You don't improve a bad player by burying them in a ditch with all the other bad players. You don't grow the skill level of your player-base by putting a bunch of speed bumps and road blocks on their path of progression.

The primary issue is you need to get people to care. And, this topic does not address that fundamental issue. Bad players who are content with being bad won't care to become better in this system. Good players won't care to extend themselves beyond themselves.