Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[Slevin_Impudicus]

We acknowledge that some people thrive on competition, and others shy away from it. Usually this is competition with others that causes the sensitivity.
We run DF content over and over and over. What if it logged your performance, and then gave you a comparison with your past performance on the same dungeon? Perhaps a progressive timeline chart showing improvement (or plateaus). You would be competing with yourself, and this would be a motivation to improve without having someone else as a target for your angst. If you truly aren't interested in the numbers, then you ignore them and no harm done. This would also answer questions about how new gear changed performance in a very direct way.
Add in a line at the top of the graph to show server max and a line at the bottom to show server minimum (at the same iLvl perhaps).

The information would be received privately without public shaming and still provide the motivation for those willing to see it.

I'm not playing this game to craft the highest quality items or to run savage content. World-first means nothing to me. I would still get some kind of urge to increase my dps from one run to the next just to play the performance chart mini-game against myself. This would be worth implementing just for SSS alone.

[MihaelB]

We run DF content over and over and over. What if it logged your performance, and then gave you a comparison with your past performance on the same dungeon? Perhaps a progressive timeline chart showing improvement (or plateaus). You would be competing with yourself, and this would be a motivation to improve without having someone else as a target for your angst.
Add in a line at the top of the graph to show server max and a line at the bottom to show server minimum (at the same iLvl perhaps).

The information would be received privately without public shaming and still provide the motivation for those willing to see it.

Statistical information to show minima and maxima for servers would be great, we know they have the basic tools for it. With Lodestone capabilities of privacy on and off, I can foresee it being a possibility.

[MihaelB]

Been more than 2 weeks since I've encountered someone with absolutely atrocious DPS given I haven't been playing as much but here we are again

[Silkerin]

This would be pretty interesting for "non leveling" stuff, duties that you have to do at lv 50 or 60.

While i am torn between actually splitting the players into tiers for queues *leaning towards against it, even after having a smn on a lv 60 dungeon with all crafted 220 hq gear doing the same dps I did with smn when final coil was relevant, and that being his only lv 60 class aside others at various lower levels, and using miasma 2 from 10 meters away from the enemies*, receiving a grade would be a awesome thing, I know I would love to see if I am doing ok, especially when i am not using my main job, but, I think only 3 ranks are enough, just saying if you are doing worse, average or better for that duty. Would be interesting as well having a reward if you do a good job, something simple like, a little bit more tomestones or gil, but having no penalty for average or worse.

[SagaSoluna]

I am a bit confused by those who oppose this idea.

Why are you so scared by the idea of pairing good players with good players and learning players with learning players?
Some of your replies make me feel like you want to force good players into carrying the less skilled ones, because you know that if this does not happen, the less skilled ones may not clear the content at all.

But how is this the better player´s responsibility?
We are all responsible for our own gameplay.

Clearing content and improving your character should be first and foremost your very own responsibility and with a system like this, if you made the effort and improved, you would soon find yourself once again in the "good players groups"
This system would just prevent people who want to cruise without a care, to do so, whereas truly honest players who want to improve would soon make it out of the bracket.

[MeiUshu]

I am neither against nor pro for this as such...but to answer you. When a lesser skilled player (beacuse good / bad is all subjective) is paired with very skilled player

a) very skilled player in a normal community tells the lesser how to go about better
b) lesser skilled learns faster from skilled ones if you are paired with equals your progression is slower if not stagnant
c) lesser skilled should listen to higher skiller player

my only grief is : stop referring as lesser killed player then you as bad players.

you can be a skilled one and still be a bad player, attitude, lazyness you name it make it that you are bad BUT not necesseraly unskille and you can be a very good but tsill being unskilled.

And it is everyones responsability to help each other why ? because everybody is calling this game a community game, but from many and more people I dont see this notion ever to be put into play when times come, words are nice but walk the talk is even better.

for the rest,wanting to segregate the community are we?

[SagaSoluna]

And it is everyones responsability to help each other why ? because everybody is calling this game a community game.

I disagree.

Asides from the fact that i would very much like to review the data you base yourself upon to claim that "everyone calls this a community game", there´s the fact that even if we were to agree that this is an online multiplayer community game, this does not bestow an unspoken and unwritten veil of responsibility over the entire community, to care for and nurture each of it´s components just because.

The only responsibilities of each player are those established by the game´s EULA and contract and any other demand is nothing but a construct invented by a player or group of players to force everyone else into doing what they want.
Whether that demand is positive for the community or not is irrelevant.

I personally spend almost my entire gaming time doing nothing but crafting new HQ gear for new players, returning players, and poor alts alike, and thus i spend most of my time helping others but that is my personal choice and has nothing to do with an invisible obligation towards the community, and if i did not want to i would not have to do any of it.

Likewise, i will never pretend for the community to nurture and carry me thru content simply because i happen to play the game.

Each person must be held accountable for their own gameplay and results, and while it is a positive thing when people help each other and is something i love to see, this cannot be expected of or demanded of the entire community.

I agree on that less skilled does not equal bad, though.

[Sparktacus]

I am neither against nor pro for this as such...but to answer you. When a lesser skilled player (beacuse good / bad is all subjective) is paired with very skilled player

a) very skilled player in a normal community tells the lesser how to go about better
b) lesser skilled learns faster from skilled ones if you are paired with equals your progression is slower if not stagnant
c) lesser skilled should listen to higher skiller player

my only grief is : stop referring as lesser killed player then you as bad players.

you can be a skilled one and still be a bad player, attitude, lazyness you name it make it that you are bad BUT not necesseraly unskille and you can be a very good but tsill being unskilled.

And it is everyones responsability to help each other why ? because everybody is calling this game a community game, but from many and more people I dont see this notion ever to be put into play when times come, words are nice but walk the talk is even better.

for the rest,wanting to segregate the community are we?

have you ever tried giving advice to a person you felt could benefit from learning more about their jobs? You would know from experience how that plays out. That even people who want to stay playing with as low an effort ceiling as possible, want to continue to stay there.

There are cases where advice helps but more often it doesn't. Mostly this refers to your A) , but I think it all applies.

On the positive side I ran a CT this week and it was the SCH first time. He dps a lot but had no Cleric Stance on. By a later boss I casually mentioned "oh, hey, you know your ruin will hit a lot harder if you put CS on!". I felt saying this where he could really see his numbers increase vs via a dot ticking would help him understand. He reluctantly took it and saw that I was correct and was really happy I gave him that tip. I did not belittle him or make him feel that this is something he should have known quite a long time ago. I learned a long time ago people do come in all sorts of skill sizes and that if they are willing to learn, that drive will trump their bad performance in my eyes.

On the other side of that there are players who willfully won't listen, stay silent, or will harass you, or, albeit rare, try to votekick you out of the party.

What happens is people stop giving advice and start expecting the player to take some responsibility for themselves.

[Rin_Sato]

add a degrading system and it'll add a whole new dimension to NA duty finder
especially balmung

[MihaelB]

Bumping with relevant link to the type of players that you can expect in DF. Prime example of the target audience that do require help and realisation to what they're doing is not acceptable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...9p&sh=7faa4f73