Thread: 3.3~ Job Feedback & Future Changes

Here comes the bubble burster with needle in hand to burst some bubbles!

-BW during grit would make DRK the go to MT because they'd do the most damage by far
-SwO 10% damage increase would make PLD stronger than WAR....that does sound nice
-Reducing the CD on Duality & Dwd would make NIN stronger, which would give it support AND damage...again maybe not the worst idea.
-WV 250 potency aoe? 30 second recast? Sidewinder is a 250 potency with both dots on the target & a 60 second cd, way too OP
-MNK being able to use chakra in battle would SKYROCKET their damage, Forbidden Chakra every 10 seconds? OP. But if they somehow made it so you could only use Meditate, then it'd be very useful.
-Stoneskin 2 was only added later to make it easier to stoneskin everyone before a battle, if WHM could use it battle at no cost, that in itself is OP, still sounds reasonable-ish, but might mess up end game raids/ex trials

However commends for actually trying, I love the influx of ideas

Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

- Wide Volley (Bard): Change it to a 250 potency AoE ability with a cooldown of 30 seconds. Right now with its absurd TP cost, there's hardly any reason to use it over Quick Nock, of which both skills share the same potency anyway (with Wide Volley costing 20 more TP).
- Stoneskin II (WHM): Changed to a 60 second CD ability, and now usable in combat.
- Shroud of Saints (WHM): Refresh duration increased to 21 seconds.

Those are pretty much the only gripes that immediately come to mind.

Wide Volley: reduce the tp cost so is the AoE skill to spam....QN is unusable in some enviroments (risk of dying , having to go near mobs ...)

Change Quick nock to for 10s all your skills are instant cast .... 1 min cd?

Originally Posted by Warlyx

Wide Volley: reduce the tp cost so is the AoE skill to spam....QN is unusable in some enviroments (risk of dying , having to go near mobs ...)

Change Quick nock to for 10s all your skills are instant cast .... 1 min cd?

Strikes me as making Bard and Machinist even more similar...

Though I guess if they actually adjusted Gauss Barrel such that it isn't a Wanderer's Minuet clone, that'd be less of an issue... I always figured Gauss Barrel and Gauss Round/Ricochet would be more interesting if it functioned as a second tier of Ammunition in some ways... Have Gauss Barrel lower attack speed, but attacks executed with Gauss Barrel build Gauss Charges, with Gauss Round/Ricochet dealing more damage with more Gauss Charges... They'd deal higher damage, perhaps have a higher recast to compensate and actually give time for other cooldowns to line up for Gauss Barrel... IDK, probably a silly concept... Maybe work the stacks similar to Monks Forbidden Chakra or something to make Gauss Barrel worthwhile right out the gate... I just really hate how they copies so much Bard for Machinist, and I already hated how Bard was handled... Not enough Songs...

As for Wide Volley... Would it be crazy to suggest it also inflict the piercing debuff? Dragoon and Bard would still have their existing synergy, 160TP for that debuff on a single target is steep... I'm not sure it would really be an option in a situation where you have no Dragoon on a single target, but in an AoE situation? That'd be amazing... Even if you have a Dragoon, since Disembowel probably isn't on everything full time...

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

@RLofOBFL
Also, I'm not going to repeat myself, but please do some math. I went over what makes Sword Oath so absurdly powerful as it is on page 2.

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

If Sword Oath doesn't seem powerful to you yet, think of it as boosting the Paladin's damage by 15% (as compared to their nigh-default -15% from Shield Oath) and then adding an additional 50 potency to every weaponskill they use.

This is just off...

Assuming all oGCDs are being used on CD and at max health, a PLD will do 10 pps from each. 150 from the 15s, 250 from the 25s, 300 from the 30s. Generally, you'll be getting a fair bit less than that, closer to 25 oGCD pps; ~2250 to 2700 potency per 90s. This does not increase with Skill Speed.

RA combos then give 700 each (233 p/gcd) and GB combos give 1020 (340 p/gcd). At a 2.5 GCD, that would be 12 combos (8 RAs, 4 GBs) or 9680 weaponskill potency per 90 seconds, or avg. 107.6 pps or 268.77 p/gcd. This portion alone increases with Skill Speed.

Base AAs then contribute another 100 potency per 3 seconds, dealt at weapon speed intervals, or avg. 33.3 pps; 3000 potency per 90s. This does not increase with Skill Speed, only Attack Speed, and only after an attack has been made since the buff was applied.

Sword Oath contributes 50 potency per AA. Contribution therefore differs with weapon speed. This does not increase with Skill Speed, only Attack Speed, and only after an attack has been made since the buff was applied.

1.80s weapon --> 60 base potency per hit --> 110 potency with SwO --> 83% buff to AA dps.
3.0s weapon --> 100 base potency per hit --> 150 potency with SwO --> 50% buff to AA dps.
2.24s weapon --> 74.7 base potency per hit --> 124.7 potency with SwO --> 67% buff to AA dps.

At a 2.24 GCD, Sword Oath would strike 40.18 times, or contribute 2000 (remainder 8.9) potency per 90 seconds.

So in total, per 90s a Paladin deals up to 2700 oGCD potency, 3000 base AA potency, 9680 weaponskill potency, and 2000 Sword Oath potency. Sword Oath totals a 11.5% dps increase. That's nothing near the 15% plus that amount (or, 26.5% dps increase) you've approximated it to. Sword Oath is strong, but takes its flavor specifically from being, essentially, boring and unmanipulable.

[I've skipped Fight or Flight potency adjustments since it only varies by up to 30 potency contribution in execution, and/or up to 18 potency contribution by delay, and therefore does not especially adjust Sword Oath's contribution percentage.]

Originally Posted by Nalien

Strikes me as making Bard and Machinist even more similar...

Though I guess if they actually adjusted Gauss Barrel such that it isn't a Wanderer's Minuet clone, that'd be less of an issue... I always figured Gauss Barrel and Gauss Round/Ricochet would be more interesting if it functioned as a second tier of Ammunition in some ways... Have Gauss Barrel lower attack speed, but attacks executed with Gauss Barrel build Gauss Charges, with Gauss Round/Ricochet dealing more damage with more Gauss Charges... They'd deal higher damage, perhaps have a higher recast to compensate and actually give time for other cooldowns to line up for Gauss Barrel... IDK, probably a silly concept... Maybe work the stacks similar to Monks Forbidden Chakra or something to make Gauss Barrel worthwhile right out the gate... I just really hate how they copies so much Bard for Machinist, and I already hated how Bard was handled... Not enough Songs...

As for Wide Volley... Would it be crazy to suggest it also inflict the piercing debuff? Dragoon and Bard would still have their existing synergy, 160TP for that debuff on a single target is steep... I'm not sure it would really be an option in a situation where you have no Dragoon on a single target, but in an AoE situation? That'd be amazing... Even if you have a Dragoon, since Disembowel probably isn't on everything full time...

Neither Wanderer's Minuet nor Gauss Barrel are remotely imaginative, but at the same time I wouldn't really have an issue with either if they only locked you into them for 3-4 GCDs, down from 5.x, where that remainder usually forces 6 GCDs anyways, so that stance-dancing could be far more prominent. That'd be the bare minimum gameplay-improving change for me.

[Gauss Barrel always seemed to me like it ought to have been a disc sort of accelerator / way-station thing (a bit like that huge Helix structure but thinner, flatter, and some millionth the size) that floats a ways in front of the gun and accelerates particles passing through it, with an animation for how it charges up some sort of surge or whatever during the GB cast time, and showily blasts the incoming shot out the other end. Each procced Shot carries that surge in the gun itself, so that the GB doesn't have to spend time producing it, and each weaponskill launched through the GB builds up charge that lasts through GB toggle and can be spent on Gauss Shot. (Ideally, I'd like to see differing uses for GS in and out of GB, or just have those charges each reduce the cooldown on GS, perhaps, to give it more SS usage.) More an aesthetic change than anything else though, while /gbarrel already works fine for removing our giant gun-mutes. Preferably I would have liked a lot more control of turret elements, which this would then fall in line with—Big Shot, imo, is what a fully buffed / Hypercharged Gauss Barrel's Gauss Shot should look like—but it seems SE prefers to use up those slots on Dismantle and Rend Mind 5% debuffs...]

Oddly enough, I'm fine with Quick Nock / Wide Volley as is in the same way I'm okay with Fell Cleave / Inner Beast or Fang & Claw / Whirling Thrust. Simply put, they should take up the same hotbar slot, where Wide Volley should be a trait increasing the TP cost and range, using an alternative animation, when over the maximum range of the original Quick Nock. The tooltip and ability name should swap with target range. Simple as that.

The alternative, imo, would be to give them effects that make you want to move in and out of range for procs, or improve the weaving in of DoTs. The first would be something like Wide Volley applying Field of Fire, which causes ranged attacks on the affected target to duplicate a portion of their damage as an AoE around the target, while Quick Nock applies Open Fire, which causes your next attack against the target to increase your attack speed by 25% for 3 seconds, consuming the charge of Open Fire—the idea being that you can then fire individual attacks into each enemy in rapid succession. Actually, that latter would work just fine for the DoT weaving bit too. Some alternative ideas might include balancing light Heavy and Slow stackable effects that do not affect DRs, or particular combos, such as sub-QN-range Heavy Shot into Quick Nock, or Repelling Shot into Quick Nock or QN > RS > WV, etc.